Hillary Wilkinson: Welcome to the Healthy Screen Habits Podcast. We are the first generation to parent while balancing screens, life, and family. Each episode features, insights, tips, and takeaways to help establish safe, mindful habits while living your family's healthiest digital life. Whether you're starting your parenting journey with a newborn or looking to connect with your teen on technology. This is the podcast for you. Welcome to the Healthy Screen Habits Podcast. In this episode, I'm super excited to be talking to my colleague and very good friend, Amy Adams. Amy works with all of us at Healthy Screen Habits. She has a master's degree in social work from UCLA. She's a credentialed school social worker in California. I wanted to just, um, you know, we're getting this whole Healthy Screen Habits Podcast kicked off, and I kind of wanted to give people a background on who we are and what we do and wanted to know, like what, what was it that brought you to the Healthy Screen Habits forum?

Amy Adams: Well, as you said, I do have four children. And when my oldest was about, I don't know, maybe 10 or 11, this is several years back. I started to look around and realize that I had to make some decisions because I knew technology was coming my way soon. And I couldn't just ignore it or not, you know, not educate myself about what was out there. And I just delved all into educating myself as much as I could about phones and apps and social media, and just really gained a lot of [00:02:00] awareness about, you know, both the good and the bad that all these things bring and wanted to be able to share that with other people around me, because it's been a wonderful journey. I started out really kind of like nervous and like, Oh my gosh, what? I don't understand any of this. And now I feel like I'm in such a great place where. I have an understanding of what's going on. And that's the thing when you have a plan and when you kind of, um, have done the, done the work to look into it, it's like, okay, it's not so scary anymore. So I--

Hillary Wilkinson: I completely agree with you when you can kind of flip that script of it happening to you versus you kind of, you know, getting into the driver's seat and moving forward with intention, all of a sudden, it just feels so much better.

Amy Adams: Yeah, I didn't want to be reactive. I wanted to be proactive. And so when you sit in that proactive place, life feels a lot better, basically.

Hillary Wilkinson: I agree. I agree. Something that you have kind of delved into [00:03:00] called the four S's and I'm wondering if you could break down those S's for us and kind of give us a little, give us a little, you know, kind of behind the scenes, on what all of them, all the S's mean.

Amy Adams: Okay. Yes. I love to talk about this. This is like home. This is my four S's. And what this revolves around is phones in bedrooms. Okay. Or really anything that connects to the internet in children's bedrooms and the reasons why they should never be in children's bedrooms. So. Um, I, you know, the easiest way to remember things is if we have some sort of like pneumonic device. And so--

Hillary Wilkinson: Completely. I think we learned that very early on in school.

Amy Adams: We can all remember our things in biology by remembering, you know, the kingdom phylum class order. But we remember that through a pneumonic device. So. I thought, okay, well, this is what I'm, I'd like to make it easy for people. So I call it my four S's. So I'll, I'll go ahead and start with the first reason number [00:04:00] one is sleep. So one of the biggest things that happens when we allow anything, any kind of device into our children's bedrooms is that we start noticing. That they're not getting as much sleep. Remember that these devices are designed to be addictive. It's designed to get you hooked when we, when we put them in our children's bedroom, Oh, well, when they're tired, it's fine. They'll, they'll, they'll be able to shut it off and go to sleep. And that's, that's not really a very fair expectation to ask children, a child.

Hillary Wilkinson: Right. I agree. And depending on the age of the child, developmentally, you may be asking something that that little person can't even do.

Amy Adams: Yeah. And it's not fair to them. It's like telling your child let's say you go to the mall right before lunch and you go into a big candy store and you tell your child, okay, well, you can stay in here and look at all this candy and you have $10 in your pocket, but don't eat anything. Don't buy any candy. And I'll be right back. I mean, it's just, it's not really a fair expectation to have of our children. [00:05:00] Um, and you know, we should know, even as adults, it's hard for us to put down our phones, imagine a young child without ...

Hillary Wilkinson: Or put down candy... 

Amy Adams: Yeah. So both of those still apply to adults, but in theory, we, our brains are more developed.

But if it's hard for us, it's even that much harder for kids. I think that's the take home message here. And so one of the things I always ask kids is I asked them two questions. I say, what time do you go to bed at night? And then the second question, the follow-up question to that is, but what time do you go to sleep? Because you know, a lot of times--

Hillary Wilkinson: A really good distinction because in my brain, as a parent, I think, Oh, I've put my child to bed. Therefore they're falling asleep, but I think you're absolutely right. Those two timeframes could be completely different.

Amy Adams: Yeah. And I think that's, that's something we need to consider as parents is that, you know, we may be putting our kids to bed at eight o'clock thinking , Oh, they're getting [00:06:00] great sleep. I'm doing it. You know, I'm doing a great job here. I'm making sure they're in their room, but if they have a device and they're using that, they may not be going to sleep till. You know, midnight, one, two, three, I mean, who knows? No one knows because we're not, we're not in there with them. Right. We, we go on and go to bed. So really it's, it's, we're helping to protect their sleep and sleep is so, so important and really kind of underrated me and--

Hillary Wilkinson: Oh, I've been reading so much lately about just the, um, brain's natural cleaning processes that it goes through while we sleep and how it can have truly detrimental effects, even just missing out a little bit every night, or even doing one all-nighter can have long lasting effects that we weren't even aware of prior to mRIs. So I agree with you, completely doctors are now being encouraged to actually prescribe sleep as a curative measure. So, you know, if it's hitting the medical field that hard, then we certainly need to be looking at it as far as a mental health perspective as well.

Amy Adams: Right. And, and really for kids it's even more important than adults, because remember they're growing, they're growing their brains. They're trying to create these new synapses then, and they're doing all this work and yet. If they're not getting enough sleep, they don't have their brains, never get the chance to do that. They don't, you know, sleep is where we store memories. Um, sleep restores so many things. I mean, just thinking about mental health wise. Think about the last time you pulled an all-nighter, which hopefully was not recently, but--

Hillary Wilkinson: right. I gave those up long ago--

Amy Adams: I think back to my college days. And there was many times, and I just think how, how was I. Like emotionally the next day. I mean, I was overwhelmed. I was crabby. I was more irritable. I was more likely to cry or be sad. Now imagine that every single day. So every single day our children, you know, may not be getting the sleep they need and it is going to [00:08:00] affect their mood. It is going to affect their mental health. And so when we talk about. You know, when people talk about--

Hillary Wilkinson: As well as sorry to cut you off there, but as well as our immune system, I mean, I wasn't aware of, so, I mean, we've got the whole mental health component as well as this physiological component. So if you have a child who is, has under slept, they're much more likely to be able to get sick as well.

Amy Adams: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's really like, it's really a public health crisis that we, that is under-reported because we just don't. We just kind of were like, well, it's, it's sleep is important, but I don't know it's fine. Or, or we don't realize that our kids are even up till two, three in the morning. We just, we don't know because the devices in the room and we've, we've gone to bed. So. I just, that's the number one reason for me of just for their health, both physical and mental, you know, you've got to keep that out of their bedrooms.

Hillary Wilkinson: Right. When you pose those questions of what time do you go to bed, versus what time [00:09:00] do you go to sleep? Like what's the hour difference that you're hearing?

Amy Adams: It varies greatly and from child to child, but it is different. It is not the same. I can say unequivocally. It is not the same.

Hillary Wilkinson: Yeah. Oh, so hypothetically, but I mean, would you say that there are students that are up past midnight, up past two o'clock 2:00 AM kind of, I mean, have you heard of things along those lines?

Amy Adams: Oh, certainly. Certainly because it's like, I mean, like I, like I mentioned at first it is addicting. It is so very addicting and, and when, and it's not just, it's not just because of the frenetic activity, it's also because of that blue light, it suppresses the melatonin. And so it's on--

Hillary Wilkinson:  Right, right...

Amy Adams: Levels. Not only that. It is we're hyper. Our children are hyper aroused because of the content, but it's also simply because of the light itself that, so they've got all these things working against them. And [00:10:00] so it really is no wonder that they are really lacking in the sleep department.

Hillary Wilkinson: And that's so important. And I, I don't think it's unfair to call it a public health crisis. Like what you're seeing here. Um, you mean, I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there. We've covered one of the S's, but I want to take a quick break. And before we get into the remaining three S's of your four assets.

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Hillary Wilkinson: Okay, thank you. And getting back into this topic of what you call your four S's, we covered one of them already, which the first S you covered was sleep or lack thereof that we're seeing as a result of digital devices being in [00:13:00] bedrooms. Uh, what else can you tell us? We got three more to go. What else?

Amy Adams: Okay. So let's go onto number two, which is social isolation. See, we think about when kids come home from school in the tech age and our current digital age here, they now gravitate towards their bedrooms. They'll come home, they'll say hi, and then they'll go immediately towards their bedrooms. Now, why are they doing this? It's because they want privacy. They want whatever, and they can be in their bedrooms alone with their tech. Um, and so what that's doing is it's taking us away from each other and putting us alone in these little, like, almost like these little solitary confinement boxes, right? Like we're, we're all together in the house. But yet we're we're alone or lonely--

Hillary Wilkinson: separate, yeah. Together, but separate. And that's the greatest quandary of our digital age.

Amy Adams: Right. And, and, you know, this is not, this is nothing against kids here because adults do the exact same thing. We're all just kind of like. We're a family. And [00:14:00] yet we have, like, we were like little cockroaches were screened to our own little corner. I love it in the book disconnected by Thomas Kirsty's. He refers to this and he talks about how the family room is called a family room for a reason.

Hillary Wilkinson: Right.

Amy Adams:  It's it's where we gathered, except for the problem is we're not really gathering as a family anymore because there's no need to, you know, we're not sitting on the couch talking cause we're, you know, it's like I mentioned earlier, the addictive nature of our devices. Or just like, you know, grab a snack from kitchen and then hurry off to our bedroom to do whatever it is that's so enticing, but it's really, it's really taking a toll on that relationship. The familial relationship.

Hillary Wilkinson: Yeah. Cause I can remember coming home from school and having that kind of period of decompression where you kind of work through the day. I know some people are more verbal, some people are less. So I would imagine some people came like an introvert would probably feel like it was nice to just come home and decompress in a quiet format, but I was always a talker and that, but that [00:15:00] was an important period of the day for me to just be able to come home and talk about what had gone on and kind of work through the problems of the day. And so. Teens today. And what's interesting is now that I reflect on it, that it would seem as though kids that are doing that, they're no longer getting kind of their parents' reflection on what happened as far as like certain interactions. So there's also a loss of that transfer of family values right there, because what it's doing to the, in going to their rooms for social isolation, it's kind of. You know, that whole world of social media ends up being very much an echo chamber of sorts. So you're not going to be able to be exposed to other lines of thoughts. So interesting.

Amy Adams: Yeah. And we know, I mean, there's a natural poll away from parents in the, in [00:16:00] adolescents, as we all know, however, parents are the largest transmitter of values and support and comfort. And we're kind of removing our children from that from us--

Hillary Wilkinson: I agree. Yeah. We're outsourcing it when we're--

Amy Adams: Yeah. And, and, and I'm not, this is not to say that children never need alone time. Cause that's, that's fine. I mean, everyone needs a little bit of alone time and that's healthy, but the problem is that it's not really a lone time. It's just go off in your corner and be alone with your device, but never have that kind of that community, because really that's what family creates is that community inside the home.

Hillary Wilkinson: Right. And when you're on device is more of a distraction than actually a working through a feelings. It's a, you're turning toward digital distraction.

Amy Adams: Right. And, you know, I love S I I've heard it said, you know, But that like when children come home from school, they have like a backpack full of emotion and, and your job as a parent is to help them unpack their backpack full of emotions.

Hillary Wilkinson: That's such a good visual.

Amy Adams: Yeah. I believe that's Dr. Laura Markham who [00:17:00] said that? You know, I, I love that visual and, and so really we want to consider that is that that's, that's really our job as parents. We really want to help our children through both the good and the bad. And so by, by allowing those screens in the bedroom, we're, we're, we're kind of removing ourselves from their a large percent of their lives, so--

Hillary Wilkinson: Right. Okay. So we've covered two of your four S's. I'm just going to review. The first S was sleep. The second S was social isolation. These are all things that happen when we allow screens in the bedroom. So obviously you're an advocate for keeping screens out of the bedroom as is our healthy screen habit. And can you go ahead and lead us into our third S.

Amy Adams: Yeah. So the third S is salacious content. So when, when computers first came out many years ago, they would say stuff like. Now make sure your computer is in a public place so that your child is not, you know, so that if there's inappropriate [00:18:00] content that comes up on the screen, that you'll be able to see it or that because it's public. Well, that's really hard now because now all of our devices are pocket devices. So it's a little harder to say to a parent, make sure your child's screen is in a family is in a public place. When everything is portable, so--

Hillary Wilkinson: Right. Everything's portable and everything it's. Everybody knows how to quickly clear a screen too. So this is a transfer from, you know, your child's hand to yours. A swipe can be made and it can be cleaned. So.

Amy Adams: Right. And really, we do want to protect our children from inappropriate content that they're too young to understand, or an inappropriate, you know, salacious content is all sorts. You know, there's, there's, there's everything from violent content to pornography, anything that is just. You know that you do not want your child to be exposed. And we know that the, the age of exposure to this kind of content is getting younger and younger.

Hillary Wilkinson: Yeah. The last I [00:19:00] read it was the average age accidental exposure to pornography was between eight and 11.

Amy Adams: Yeah, and I guarantee--

Hillary Wilkinson: it's become a conversation that you, you, you have to have with your children of, it's not an if it's a when. So there's a great picture book that is called good pictures, bad pictures. And, um, That is a resource that we had healthy screen habits recommend for people to open up the conversation about pornography and give some, give kids some tools to stop and turn away. When, when--

Amy Adams: Right, Kristen Jensen is, does she's the author. She made an easy way for parents to have kind of an awkward hard conversation. You know, we have her to thank for that. And. We just, we just really want to reduce the exposure here. I'm not promising you that if you don't allow your kids, you know, devices in their bedrooms, that suddenly they will [00:20:00] never be exposed. We're just, we're reducing, we're trying to reduce exposure here. And so, you know, if you can, if you can have certain places where you, you know, you just know that the device is never going to go into a room, into a closed bedroom where they can close the door and who knows what they're looking at. You have no idea of knowing, but if the device is not in there, that's one less.

We recommend keeping, keeping devices in public areas. Right. In my personal house, we have our master bedroom downstairs and then we have all the kids' bedrooms upstairs. And so the rule in our house is that no devices go upstairs. That's kind of like the invisible line. Like if you, if you, if you're walking up the stairs and you have your device and you need to retrace your steps, I, I wish I had one of those, like. You know those dog, it was like electric--

Hillary Wilkinson: shock collars--

Amy Adams: The kid who gets shocked, but my kids are pretty good about it now because they know that this is real. So it's just a matter of--

Hillary Wilkinson: Just like training ourselves to I'm old enough to remember when the [00:21:00] seatbelt laws got put in place. It's like now it feels completely foreign even to drive across a parking lot with, without my seatbelt on I, it feels very strange and wrong. And I think, I think you're right. I think what we need to do is. To have your device with you in either a bedroom or a bathroom needs to feel as strange as driving without a seatbelt on or riding in a car without your seatbelt on.

Amy Adams: Right. And, and some parents will say, but Hey, my child is four it's okay. But you know, when does it not become, okay, you're not going to, you don't get to choose when suddenly they're going to accidentally be exposed to it. So it may seem like an inconvenience, but what it does is it creates a pattern. And the earlier we can create those good patterns and those good habits, the more likely they will be to stick when they're older. And it really will matter.

Hillary Wilkinson: I agree completely. Okay. So let's move on. We've got so-so the four S's that we've covered. We've got sleep. We've got social isolation. [00:22:00] We've got salacious content. And then what's your fourth S that you go.

Amy Adams: Okay. So my fourth S is sexual predators. Okay. And this one--

Hillary Wilkinson: That's the big one.

Amy Adams: Yeah, I think my parents feel like, Whoa. So that's our, we ease into this when we talked about this one last, but I don't want you to be scared. I want, I want parents to feel empowered--

Hillary Wilkinson:  Right? Education leads to empowerment--

Amy Adams:  Right. We're trying to empower you. We don't, you know, we want you to be in a proactive situation. You're not a reactive. So basically what, what predators need is two things. They need accessibility and they need vulnerability. Now vulnerability is something that, you know, that's, that's a whole separate issue. We could spend a whole podcast talking about that, but let's talk about the first one, which is accessibility. Um, you don't know what's happening behind closed doors.

Hillary Wilkinson: That device is behind the door. You don't know what's going on. You're right.

Amy Adams: And, and, you know, there's, there's a great organization, um, out there called a million [00:23:00] lives and the woman who runs it talks about this a lot and she just says, it just cannot stress enough. The. The risks that we're putting our children out. If we're letting them have devices in their bedrooms because of this accessibility issue. And, you know, cause we don't know what's happening. A lot of us think of sexual predators zone, we think, Oh my gosh, the guy's going to come and kidnap our children. But really that's not how our children are getting exploited. What's what's really happening is our children are getting exploited through like you know, that called sexploitation.

Hillary Wilkinson: I was going to say yes, at Healthy Screen Habits on our Instagram page, we do a series called words on Wednesday, where we introduce new vocabulary and the term sexploitation was one of our words on Wednesday. Would you care to define it, Amy?

Amy Adams: Okay. So let me just give you kind of an example. Let me walk you through what that looks like. So. Let's say your child has a Tik ToK accounts. A lot of children do a lot of teens do. And let's say someone contacts them [00:24:00] through their through that platform. And they say, Oh, I really like, I really like your video. You're so cute. You're so you've gotten great coordination. You got great dance moves. Can you make me a dance? You know, can you make me one, can you do one? Can you do it like this? And. And here's my, you know, private whatever address to send it to or whatnot. So the kid makes one and then it gradually gets more and more explicit. OK. Now, can you take off your shirt now? Can you take off your pants? And then they'll say kind of like, well, got you. Now, if you don't want, I'm going to tell everyone, you know, unless you make me another video and so--

Hillary Wilkinson: Or I'm gonna tell your parents--

Amy Adams: Or I'm going to tell your parents--

Hillary Wilkinson: And that's the point at which that shame is coming in and the fear. And if they've already been socially isolated, you can see how all of these things compound. All of those S's are, are working to create the perfect storm. Hey storm could be the fifth S.

Amy Adams: Yes. [00:25:00] The storm can be what happens if the fourth of four S's don't happen. Right. So, I mean, that's, that's the thing is that our children they're so vulnerable is cause remember really important to know their brains are not fully developed. And so they don't have the same. Skillset. And they're getting manipulated by adults. The people that are preying them on them are adults who have fully formed brains and know how shame works and know how these things work. And so, I mean, you can read article after article after article, and it's always the same, you know, the same kind of story.

Hillary Wilkinson: I completely agree with you once you've read a few of these stories, it becomes a very formulaic.

Amy Adams: Right.

Hillary Wilkinson: And like starts... Yeah. It all starts with those two things that are exactly like you said, accessibility and vulnerability.

Amy Adams: So anyway, if we can, if we can keep that out of bedrooms and just like, just like with number three with salacious content, I'm not, I can't promise you [00:26:00] that they'll never be contacted by a sexual predator. I'm just, I can say though that it will not happen in your bedroom and it, it, there's less of a chance. Of terrible things because they're not in this private space where no one is monitoring and it's so important is that public protects. And private does not.

Hillary Wilkinson: Excellent. Okay. So we've got our four S's, I'm going to review those. And then when we come back, Amy, I'm going to ask you to give us one healthy screen habit that you recommend that we all put into practice this week. Okay. The four S's were sleep. Social isolation, salacious content and sexual predation, and all four of those things can be protected slash protected against if we keep screens out of our children's bedrooms.

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Hillary Wilkinson: Welcome back. We have covered the four S's of why keep screens out of bedrooms with Amy Adams from healthy screen habits, and the four S's are sleep, social isolation, salacious content, and sexual predators. And if that cannot be enough to convince them, Anyone, I'm not sure what we're working for. So Amy, I want to leave everyone who invests their time with us each week on the healthy screen habits podcast with a tip or a takeaway, a healthy screen habit that they [00:29:00] can use in their house. Do you have one for us?

Amy Adams: Okay. Yes. And it's very simple. And this is one that will leave you in the seat of being proactive instead of being reactive. And this is just kind of what we've been discussing today. Get those screens out of your children's bedrooms.

Hillary Wilkinson: Where do you recommend they get put at night then?

Amy Adams: Um, you can do a docking station. I do not recommend doing a docking station where they have access to it without you knowing. So I highly recommend that the docking station is in your bedroom or your bathroom.

Hillary Wilkinson: Okay. I like that idea of it being in the master bathroom, because I know that I, you know, the notifications and the buzzes and everything else kind of go off throughout the night. And sometimes, I mean, I need to protect my own sleep, you know, as a middle-aged person and I value every hour. [00:30:00] Okay.

Amy Adams: For too many stories, it's too tempting. Cause some parents will say, Hey, well it was out of their bedroom. It was charging in the hallway or it was charging in the dining room. I mean, you get an, a for effort, but the reality is that kids, once again, the addictive nature of those devices and kids really like those devices they'll go to, you know, lengthy means to get those devices. So it's--

Hillary Wilkinson: Oh 100%. I completely agree.

Amy Adams: Make them have to, you know, go through your bedroom, which they're much less likely to do. So don't, don't put it in an open area, put it in a place where they've, they've got to walk through you first. So that's why I highly recommend your master bathroom. It's safe. You want it in a safe place.

Hillary Wilkinson: Okay, thank you so much for spending your time with us today, Amy and we look forward to, uh, exploring more healthy screen habits every week as we move forward. And I appreciate everyone who invested [00:31:00] their time with us today. For more information, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at healthy screen habits. Make sure to visit our website, healthy screen habits.org, where you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts or RSS. So you'll never miss an episode. It's free. It's fun. And you get a healthy, new screen habit each week while you're at it. If you found value in this show, we'd appreciate you giving us a quick rating. It really does help other people find us and spread the word of healthy screen habits. Or if you'd simply like to tell a friend, we'd love that too.

I so appreciate you spending your time with me this week. And I look forward to learning more healthy habits.