For more info: Tessa's Website

LookItUp Nonprofit's Website

Hillary Wilkinson (00:46):

My guest today is a mom on a mission! Somebody I can relate to- raised by two psychologists. She's always had a deep interest in human interaction and genuine relationships. Fast forward and apply some like real life math. She's now a mom of four and a therapist. After working with teenagers, she decided to take on parenting from a new perspective, that is actively parenting today to protect your family's future tomorrow. I love that. Today, tomorrow. She provides motivation and hope for families across the nation by helping navigate the world of technology, social media pressure, and lost connections. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Tessa Stuckey!

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (01:40):

Hi. Thank you for having me.

Hillary Wilkinson (01:43):

Tessa, you clearly speak and work with families every day. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I. Is that, was that your motivation behind getting into kind of this digital wellness playground/pond?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (02:00):

Um, no, not at all. I became a therapist to work with teenagers just to help them with typical life stressors, learn how to know, recognize their emotions, and then regulate their emotions. I wish I had a therapist when I was a teenager. Um, and it just, so I started working about almost a decade ago, so 2015, and it, it hit me really, really hard because every single one of my young clients was struggling with suicidal thinking and self harm. Um, and obviously when you go get your degree and your master's in counseling, you're trained and you expect to work with that demographic from time to time. Um, however, it was literally every single client, and it felt like these parents were just, it came out of nowhere for their families. And it scared the bejesus out of me because I have four kids, and at the time, mine were four and under, and I was, I would, I just lost too much sleep thinking “what is happening in today's world that these teenagers, their go-to thought is to, is so dark and so quickly they get there?” Um, and so I fell into understanding how social media and screen addiction really is affecting our culture's overall mental health, and especially those young brains and hearts.

Hillary Wilkinson (03:34):

Okay. I, I, I think your timing of your professional life and your personal life, I mean, you're just, I, you're the perfect, like, intersection of understanding what parents are having to deal with. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I'm so grateful that you're here. I'm so sorry to hear your clients are in so much pain, but I'm so grateful you are here to help them.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (04:01):

Well, the good news is, is that many of them are much better. And once I figured out that social media screen addiction piece, um, I knew exactly where to go with my clients and I'm happy to report. Right now, I don't have any suicidal clients and I've seen a shift within my practice, but I wanted to take this information further than my office, um, as a mom myself, trying to do that preventative care. And I believe every parent needs to hear this so that they can practice preventative care or intervention within their family.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:36):

Yeah. Yeah. So what is it that when you, you clearly you have like individual clients, but you deal with families as well. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And what is it that you see? Is this like this great divide or what's the biggest point of conflict that you see when it comes to screens and family dynamics?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (04:54):

Yeah, I, that's a layered, there's a, it's a layered answer, right? But I think there's so much offered in the digital world that it's only natural for individuals to be drawn to it and to, um, have it with them all the time, lean on it for whatever reason, whether for entertainment to find an answer to a question that they have. So using it for a resource or using it as a distraction for boredom or loneliness. Um, and it's created this culture where true connection is harder to achieve. And then also I think true resilience, using a screen as a quick fix, um, and never really learning how to recognize emotions and then processing emotions, um, has created that big problem. But then also I think parents, because we didn't grow up with all these devices in our faces so much that we don't know how to parent these kids and, and the world that they're living in. And so I think that there's a lot of parents feeling helpless and maybe just going with the flow or hearing that their friends got a phone and feeling pushed to get their own child a phone, you know, starting in fifth grade or whatever. And, um, just not really being aware of the true dangers.

Hillary Wilkinson (06:16):

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So no single point of conflict, but it's Mm-Hmm. Multi multifactorial.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (06:25):

Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (06:26):

I'm, you know, I'm always trying to find the quickest fix because I know that's people are interested in, and I have to tell you, I have yet to find the quickest fix because honestly, the, I, I hate to use a phrase like fix. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But the best strengthener Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I think that we have found in healthy screen habits is the relationship between yourself and your child. Yeah. Its ultimately your best strengthener, insulator. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, no, no filter, no monitoring device, no. Nothing will take the place of that. Right.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (07:03):

So. Right. I agree. And I think that no matter what you do in your home as far as protecting your kids online, they still have to go out into the real world, ride the bus, go to school. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> go to friends' houses. And so I agree that the number one important goal for all parents should be their relationship with their child. Having those open communication and talks. Yeah. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (07:24):

So here's something we all strive, we all want in our, you know, you get up in the day and you, it's kind of like, oh, with meal prep, if you will, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you, you have your, you have your idea of how your day is going to go. And I, I mean, with four boys, active career, you've got a book, you've got a foundation. You're, I mean, you are clearly someone who gets it, of what life looks like for today's modern moms. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. But, so if I put my, my teacher hat on Yeah. I know the importance of modeling correct behavior. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we all want this like be present and engaged and strengthen this relationship. And, but we also have 500,000 things we're trying to take care of at the same time. So how can parents, what, what do you recommend that me as a mom Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> can do to model the best tech habits without looking like a complete hypocrite to my child, you know? Yeah. Of saying like, get off your phone, but I'm on mine. Like, right. What do you, how do you do that?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (08:33):

So there's two tips that I share with parents for this. So the first one is to come up with a family code word that everyone in the family knows about. And this family code, word signals, “Hey, get off your phone.” 'cause you, when you walk in a room and you hear someone say, get off your phone, it comes across as nagging or with a tone. Right. And they may be actually doing something that's important, or they might be just scrolling YouTube and should get off their phone. Right. Um, but it's either way, it's signaling to the other person, Hey, I wanna talk to you, or I want your attention, or I'd really like it if you put your phone down. Um, and so giving everyone in the family permission to use that code word and to call others out on it is really important. It gives the kids this, um, permission to have ownership and recognize that their parents are human too, but also request nicely, can I have your attention?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (09:33):

As well as it gives the parents permission to say that to their child for, you know, however old their teenager is or whatever. It's just, I think it's a respectful way to ask, can I have your attention? Um, the second tip that I share with parents is to get in the habit, starting yesterday in narrating why you are picking up your phone. Letting our kids know, Hey, I need to check the weather to see if you need a jacket today. Or, um, I don't like this song. I'm gonna change it really quick on my phone. Or whatever you're picking up your phone for, to narrate that to your kids. We want our kids to see that technology is not all bad and that we use it to be productive. And I know for me it's like, hold on buddy. I have to put this client in my calendar right now.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (10:22):

'cause if I don't, I'm totally gonna forget <laugh>. You know? Um, and so it's, it's just a matter of that respect too. And I think it's just good in general. Like, if you and I went out to eat, it would be so rude if I, you're talking to me and I'm just pull my phone up without saying, hold on, my grandmother is trying to call me right now. Or Hold on, I need to check something really quick. You know? Yeah. Um, so I think that just human decency, it's important to narrate why we are using our devices. And then the added bonus is, it, it sets that good example for our kids.

Hillary Wilkinson (10:55):

Yeah. Yeah. That, that being in front of somebody and they're talking and you pull out a phone. I'm a big fan of portmanteaus, which is always a word that I love to use. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, yeah. Uh, we used to do a thing called Words on Wednesday when I, we'd put something in that was like a new, a newish buzzword, and the word was

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (11:16):

Like a slang word.

Hillary Wilkinson (11:17):

Yes. Yes. And the, the word for that that I've heard is called “phubbing”. Yes. And it's like, it's like phone snubbing. Yes. So they put it together and it's phubbing. So yeah.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (11:29):

I actually had a friend, um, that would do that every single time we'd go out to eat. And it just drove me insane. And I just, I couldn't go hang out with her anymore because I thought it was so rude. Um, and it is, I think it's so rude, <laugh> to do that. And

Hillary Wilkinson (11:46):

I think Yeah. With someone with your skillset, who has the ability to clearly communicate, like, you know, your feelings well and everything that you eventually found that the easiest way to deal with that was to stop seeing them rather than deal with, you know, uh, telling them, “Hey, I, you're really hurting my feelings when you do that”  and calling them out on their own behavior. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> tells me that I am not alone when I have made those choices as well. Yes. 'cause I am with you. I'm like, yes. It, it really, it, and then I feel lame. 'cause it's like, and then God help you if you, you know, if you're the person that ever pulls out your phone when you're with them Right. And they're gonna jump on you, so, right.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (12:27):

Well, and I, if they're a really close friend to you or your sister or your mom or whatever, I think it's important to bring that to their attention. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But if they are not super close to you and you meet up with them and they're doing that, they're obviously not prioritizing that time with you. And I would just, I have other things I need to get doing, and  I would rather not, you know,

Hillary Wilkinson (12:48):

Really good boundary setting. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So when we come back, I will be asking Tessa AKA, the mom therapist about social media.

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Hillary Wilkinson:

I'm speaking with Tessa Stuckey, also known as The Mom Therapist. Tessa takes on today's negative cultural effects on our kids' mental health from the perspective of a therapist, but with this like, heart and care and love of a mother. So her content is really relatable. And I, uh, I just, I feel like when Tessa comes up on my feed, I feel like I'm talking to a friend.

Hillary Wilkinson (14:02):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So, when, um, when I see your feeds come through, one of the things that I appreciate is you provide this really, I'm just gonna say real commentary on like, the biggest issues surrounding mental health today. And you break it down into very, um, approachable things that I feel like we can, we can all tackle. So that being said, I am wondering, <laugh>, those of us who study social media, you know a lot about this, how this is, I'm asking primarily for a social, for a, uh, selfish reason, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That's why, you know, that whole “research is mesearch”  kind of a thing. Here we go, <laugh>. Yes. So how do you handle posting and like managing comments and all of that, but yet avoid getting sucked in because I will do that to go on, on healthy screen habits. And, and then next thing you know, I'm like, ah, why am I looking at recipes when I was supposed to be staying firmly in my lane?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (15:04):

Yeah. First of all, thank you for, um, saying such a glowing review about my content, of course. And my work. Um, I really, my goal is for people to feel like I'm their friend just talking to them, um, because that's how I really do care so much about everyone's well being and their kids, you know? Um, so that's a very good question. And I'm gonna be honest. Like, there's times that I slip too into that addictive behavior, and that is really scary to me that we are grown adults with our brains fully developed. Um, we work hard to set boundaries. We want to practice healthy tech behavior. Um, and then when we're researching or we're gonna post something, we can easily get sucked into that rabbit hole and that spiral of social media. So I have some pretty strict boundaries for myself, which is, I do not look at my phone.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (16:06):

I don't even look at it for the first, like, two hours of being awake. Now I wake up very early. I wake up at 5:00 AM My kids don't wake up till six 30. So I usually have that time to journal or read or stretch or, you know, whatever. Um, enjoy, you know, wake up with coffee. Um, so that, and I have to avoid my phone because I know the minute I pick it up, there's gonna be emails, notifications, text messages, and I'm gonna be tempted to get on social media, and I know that I will get stuck in that. I was recently asked to make a video with a filter specifically from TikTok. Now I don't have TikTok, so I told her I can't do that. But then she asked me if I was willing to download TikTok just to use the filter. And then undownload it and I got sucked in.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (16:59):

I mean, because then I was like, well, I do need to kind of see what's happening on TikTok so that I can stay up with it. Right. I understand. And I've, I've always said that when my clients are like, Tessa, have you, I love this new app. I'm on it all the time. I'm like, tell me so I can get on it and research it. I get sucked in every single time. And it's like, oh my gosh, another Amazon find, I love that, you know, and those recipes, I'm telling you. But, um, I think that really practicing that self-awareness and setting those boundaries, setting your own screen time on your phone and sticking to them is really important. But also I'm really big on, if we are online to be productive, then typically it's okay. It doesn't mean it's always okay, but we have to really decipher, are we truly researching? You know, or are we getting lost in the world of social media? And so I think having that harsh understanding is really important for us adults who are trying to contribute to the world of social media through social media, but don't want to fall into the tricks of social media. Mm-Hmm.

Hillary Wilkinson (18:09):

<affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So speaking about social media, I know it's kind of like your, uh hmm. I don't know. It's the thing that maybe, maybe it's just me, because I feel like, um, when I hear you talking about it, I'm like, Ooh, tell me more. But, um, what are your, what are your, what are the apps that you hate? <laugh>? That's, I think, you know what I'm asking, like, what are the worst apps out there for…

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (18:34):

Are you saying for kids?

Hillary Wilkinson (18:35):

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Sorry, I should have, yeah. Yeah. For kids. So

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (18:39):

I, first of all, I do not like social media for anyone until they're 15 or 16 years old. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I strongly believe that because I have seen the difference between kids getting it at 15, 16, and they are emotionally mature enough to take on the online world. They still need to, you know, be warned and worked with. But, and that open communication's important, but they are built and stronger to take that online world. Kids that get it 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 years old, they are still, by the time they're 15, 16 years old, not ready for social media. So if we're talking about the kids once they're 15, 16, I would say the ones that I dislike the most are actually what I call the big four, which is the ones that everyone has Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, and YouTube. I think TikTok is the one I hate the most. Um, and because all four of 'em have everything I dislike about social media for everyone's mental health. Not that there can't be good things from these apps, um, but I think that we have to just be very, very careful with our kids on these apps.

Hillary Wilkinson (19:53):

Right. Right. What is it specifically for me? Um, for me, I hate Snapchat the most. Mm-Hmm.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (20:00):

<affirmative>. Mm-Hmm.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:01):

So what is it for you that drives your, um, your top four, the ranking of your top four?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (20:10):

Honestly, it's because it's, those are the apps that kids feel so pressured to have. Everybody has these apps, right. And so, um, it's created this, uh, cultural norm to have these apps. And really and truly, these apps have so many harms that come with them. And if kids even at 15, 16 years old are getting 'em, without being aware of the toxicity that comes with it, um, they're, there's a good chance they're gonna fall. And it, and we don't want our kids to fall. You know, we want to prepare them and, and hold them up and help them build their strength so that they can hold themselves up, you know? Right. And, um, social media, just, it doesn't help our kids in so many for so many reasons.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:58):

So if you have a child that you're starting to get that perhaps they already have social media Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, or perhaps what, what are some things that we can look out for of getting into an ut oh zone? Mm. You know, that's a tech term, you know, stay with <laugh>, an ut oh zone, Uhhuh <affirmative>,

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (21:20):

Uhhuh, <affirmative>. That's a very important term. Yeah. So you're asking like, what behavioral stuff Yes. Can we pick up on? So that, I mean, that is the thing that I think is the hardest part, is that a lot of times it's not obvious. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So working as a mental health professional, you know, we are trained to look for isolation, change in behavior, moodiness, um, you know, lack of motivation. Um, if someone loves to hang out with their friends and then all of a sudden they don't wanna see their friends, um, like there's a lot of things that we've been trained to pick up on, or if they're talking about death, or they're having dark thoughts or scary thoughts, or they're not sleeping, or they're sleeping too much. But the thing with social media is that it doesn't always, the kids or the teenagers don't always show those signs.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (22:09):

They really don't. But I will say, mom, to mom, we have this gut instinct that will kick in and you will be able to tell that something is off. You may not be able to pinpoint it, and they may not feel comfortable telling you, but there is something that sets our alarms off, that tells us something is wrong. And it could be a little thing like, um, a boy sent them a nude photo unsolicited, or, um, a girl, they were with a group of friends and they were the only one that the girl didn't tag in the photo to be, you know, cyberbullying to be mean. And so, or they're feeling left out. FOMO is a very real thing. And so once you kind of pick up on some slight change in behavior that is not positive change in behavior, then it's, it's reason enough to start conversations about it.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:04):

Mm mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So don't, don't underestimate just that power of the, uh, the mom spidey senses.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (23:10):

Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:11):

Yeah. Yeah.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (23:12):

I, I really think the harms with social media are so strong that it can catch our kids at any given moment. And so we have to kind of be on the lookout for it.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:24):

Yeah. Yeah. And just to back up what you, what Tessa is saying, Healthy Screen Habits recommendations is we follow the wait until eighth, meaning eighth grade. And for, by that we mean the end of eighth grade. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So for devices and social media, not to start until about 15 ½, 16, we have a four-part step into social media plan that we've just developed and are happy to give any presentations to anybody who is interested. We just did one at a school district. It went really well.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (23:56):

Nice.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:56):

So, um, last year you co-founded a nonprofit called Lookup Foundation, and the mission is to support families in raising a healthy and mindful generation by providing practical tools and resources to help them navigate the challenges of screens and social media. I think the emphasis on practical tools and resources is the thing that is so needed, because for a long time in this nonprofit sector of digital wellness, we were focusing on awareness building, but I think we've reached the generation where people are aware and now they need tools and resources. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So how's this all going?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (24:43):

So it's going really well. So I have been on this mission since 2015. So coming together with my partner a year ago, we, it was a really great marriage and partnership because she was on the same track, um, in her professional life. So, um, we have all the content and the passion and motivation and the speaking experience ready to go. And, you know, on the nonprofit business side, obviously some things take time and we're still in like program development and all of that, but right now we're putting a lot of focus in speaking and we speak nationwide, um, and really emphasizing the mental health side of screens. And then, like you said, that those practical tools. And so one thing we do is we meet with families who are struggling because maybe they didn't know the harms and they allowed their kids devices starting at five, six years old.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (25:42):

And here we are now, they're 12, 13, and, um, feeling overwhelmed. And so we customize family plans for them to reset, and then we're really, really passionate about the preventative care. So we really try to get ahold of those parents who have little toddlers right now who are feeling just, you know, overwhelmed with that lifestyle, with tantrums and, you know, sick babies at home and trying to juggle it all and wanting to lean on the screen a little too much and kind of how to support them so that they don't do that. Um, and the last thing that Lookup is really passionate about doing is helping schools. So we've partnered with some school districts, and recently we partnered with one that has 73,000 students, and we help them revise their phone policies and help educate their teachers, their staff, the parents and the students so that everyone is very aware and the enforcement follows through and it goes smoothly.

Hillary Wilkinson (26:43):

That's great. That's great. Is Lookup, um, a proponent of a phone free school? Is that, or a bell to bell type phone free?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (26:51):

I, that is my dream, but we do tailor it to what the district wants to do. Um, but we really try to push that for sure, especially with the younger grades. Um, that school that we worked with, the district with 73,000 students, we got it K through sixth grade, bell to bell, no devices, no smart watches or anything. And then seventh and eighth grade, they're allowed to look at their phone at lunch, which I really was trying to fight against. And then ninth through 12th, it's the same lunch and if the teacher allows it for instructional purposes, but no free time after work is done. So that was a win, but I would've been much more happier if they couldn't have it during lunch.

Hillary Wilkinson (27:42):

Yeah, yeah. No, there's important social development that's going on. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, the developmental stuff that needs to happen. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> at those stages. Yes. Um, so we have to take a short break, but when we come back, I am going to ask Tessa Stuckey for her Healthy Screen Habit, 

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Hillary Wilkinson

 I'm speaking with Tessa Stuckey, Wonder Mom Therapist and co-founder of Lookup Foundation. Tessa, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. And this is going to be a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. I know you have a million. That being said, can you shoot one of them our way?

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (29:25):

Yeah. I think the somewhat easiest way to start is to create a new habit and lifestyle norm within your family that anytime someone is upset or distressed or even bored, that screens are not available. And I know that that goes against kind of our natural way of thinking, because we want to maybe fix whatever distress our kids are going through. Um, but what we really, really want is for our kids to learn how to recognize their emotions and then learn how to regulate their emotions without the screen. Because by the time they hit those hormonal years, it, it can get very real really fast if they have only depended on the avoidance via screen. And, um, so as inconvenient as it is while they're little, the heartbreak that is headed your way if you don't practice this, is just too much to bear. So I would say during a time of boredom of, or distress to make your family lifestyle, to not have screens.

Hillary Wilkinson (30:39):

Excellent. So maybe have like even a little, I'm picturing, um, you know, a, a picture graph or something for pre-readers or a list of what you can do instead, instead.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (30:51):

Yeah. I think it's really important for parents to brainstorm with their kids. And I always ask, what do you like to do for fun? And what do you like to do that's relaxing and make those lists without screens? And that right there is, are some go-to options. Um, and I had another point and I forgot it.

Hillary Wilkinson (31:10):

That's okay.

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (31:10):

<laugh>. But yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (31:12):

Okay. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show and a link to any of those resources that Tessa has discussed by visiting the show notes for this episode. Do this go by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. Tessa, thank you so much for being here and being just a, a light in the darkness of social media. <laugh>

Tessa Stuckey, LPC (31:41):

Oh, thank you so much.