For More Info:

Educate Empower Kids

Books by Dina and Educate Empower Kids:

30 Days of Sex Talks for Ages 3-7: Empowering Your Child with Knowledge of Sexual Intimacy: Amazon link

30 Days of Sex Talks for Ages 8-11: Empowering Your Child with Knowledge of Sexual Intimacy: Amazon link

30 Days of Sex Talks for Ages 12+: Empowering Your Child with Knowledge of Sexual Intimacy: Amazon link

Petra's Power to See: A Media Literacy Adventure: Amazon link

Noah's New Phone: A Story About Using Technology for Good: Amazon link

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:00)

Please be aware that today our episode contains references to human sexuality, intimacy, sexual development, and pornography. I am talking to someone today who is determined to strengthen families by teaching digital citizenship, media literacy, and healthy sexuality education, including education about the dangers of online porn. She's the creator of a series of books, which we are going to dive into, as well as being the founder and CEO of Educate and Empower Kids. We met at a recent conference, and I'm so happy to welcome to Healthy Screen Habits. Dina Alexander!

Dina Alexander: (00:57)

Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:00)

Yay! Dina, I was reviewing your background as one does prior to us sitting down .

Dina Alexander: (01:06)

I hope so. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:08)

And I see that your background is actually in recreation therapy, and I don't know that I would've put digital citizenship and media literacy in the same bucket, kind of as recreation therapy, but I know very little about that area, so feel free to educate me. How did you end up landing in the area of digital wellness?

Dina Alexander: (01:30)

Well, as a mom, I have always, of course, been concerned about the education and upbringing of my children. Recreation therapy is basically like a, it's a group therapy degree the way I did my program, but I, it all started, um, I had, we had just moved and I was kind of trying to decide what to do with my life, and I came across an article on Facebook about teen porn consumption. In my mind, it was so outrageous. I thought, no, it can't be this bad. Like, what is the big deal? And I started just, and I was like, okay, I gotta look at this though. Started researching and I was, I was shocked. I was like, no, okay, this is for real. This is a serious issue. Not just because okay, our kids are being exposed younger and younger and et cetera.

Dina Alexander: (02:28)

But I found that what was in pornography was so incredibly misogynistic and in my opinion, totally hateful toward women. And that this is where the majority of kids were/are getting their sex education. And it was just like a fire inside of me. I thought, I gotta do something. I got, and I started researching more, talked to different friends all, you know, and realizing, because at first I thought, oh, this is a Christian issue, you know, and I'm, I'm a Christian. And I thought, okay, people are, you know, it's just Christians. Like, they're just scared to talk about this. And it was like, Nope. My Jewish friends, my agnostic friends, everyone was scared to talk about sex, not let alone pornography. And I thought, how am I gonna get people to talk to their children about pornography if I can't even get them to talk to their kids about sex? And so that's why the first set of books we wrote are the 30 Days of Sex Talks. Um, and we have three books in that series for ages three to seven, eight to 11 and 12 plus. But that was the beginning of what I've been doing for the last almost 11 years of just trying to help parents raise healthy kids in the digital age.

Hillary Wilkinson: (03:45)

I think that that issue that you just brought up is really misunderstood a lot because I will be talking to people and you mention pornography and people assume you're coming from this morality standpoint. Mm-hmm. And it's not that it's public health. Absolutely. So yeah, we can dive into that a little bit later. Sure. You and I just recently met at a conference called UCAP, which stands for Utah Coalition Against Pornography. Amy Adams and I, from Healthy Screen Habits were presenting; we had a vendor's table right down the breezeway from yours, and you would've thought they were giving free puppies away down the hall, because the swarm around your table was like three people deep. And so, of course, I, I had to go investigate when I saw it was you, I, I knew why people were there.

Hillary Wilkinson: (04:42)

And you talked briefly about your series of  books on, on talking about sexuality, but I actually knew you from your titles, Noah's New Phone and Petra's Power to See. And both of those titles are on our bookshelf at this house and have been great conversation starters at my house. But the books that you were tabling at UCAP and generating the greatest buzz were your 30 Days of Sex Talks. And you've already covered about like, you know, the age differences and stuff like that. Um, I think one of the most beautiful things about your 30 Days books is they're kind of laid out like almost a lesson plan, right? Mm-hmm . And you get a paragraph or three at the, about the background or the why behind each talk. And then you get these follow-up activities, or even better, a script or a list of questions. And I love how your material is completely thought out with ages and stages. For example, in 30 Days of Sex Talks for ages three to seven, you simply start by exploring senses and talking about all the amazing things that our bodies do. Knowing that you have that very developmental approach, like how did you approach the creation of your books with your content, with development in mind?

Dina Alexander: (06:17)

Yeah. So my bachelor's is in family studies, and that was like one of like my favorite classes. And what I had actually TA'ed for as an undergrad was in child development. And so I knew how important that was to break this down. And so you'll find, 'cause people also will hear ages three to seven?, Like, why are you talking to kids that young about sex, da da da da, not realizing that the book is mostly protective information and that it's the building blocks of creating healthy relationships, protecting our children from predators, and having positive ideas about sex. And so that's the first lesson is: my amazing body. And the second lesson is: my body belongs to me. And 'cause it's so important, again, to help those young 3, 4, 5, 6 year olds understand how incredible their bodies are, and that they are so worth protecting, and why we as parents are gonna love them and protect them the best we can.

Dina Alexander: (07:22)

Each book is broken down to help parents just have a simple conversation, particularly with that age group. You know, like some of those lessons it might only take you five minutes to do. And that's what, that's part of it. You know, think of what our three to seven-year-olds, they're only gonna pay attention for about five minutes. That's what you got. So you're gonna, you know, be simple, get right to the point. And that is what I really wanted for parents and kids to just start those building blocks, to just create that awesome foundation of knowledge, but more importantly, that awesome foundation of your kids, knowing that they can talk to you about these sensitive topics, that you are not gonna be awkward, that you're not gonna say, “I'll tell you when you're older”, or “Why are you asking me that question?”

Dina Alexander: (08:14)

It's very positive. It's, you know, we're trying to avoid shame. We're trying to help our kids see that sex is amazing, that this is a wonderful, amazing thing in our lives, and it's special, and that our bodies are special, and so we're gonna treat ourselves and other people with kindness and respect. So that's where again, like it was important to just develop these books for each age group, because as all of us know, we wanna have those age appropriate discussions. But that's also why in the 12 plus we talk about some serious stuff. And it's a lot of things that parents forget about, or they assume that our kid, their kids are going to get in sex ed class at high school. You know, forgetting that high school sex ed is, you know, pregnancy avoidance and STD avoidance. Not a lot about having a healthy relationship or knowing the difference between a healthy relationship and an abusive relationship, or

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:13)

It's very, uh, like I would say that curriculum is very much designed under the male gaze.

Dina Alexander: (09:21)

For sure. For sure.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:22)

It's very mechanics based mm-hmm . And does not say anything to girls about or boys for that part about like what you talk about that, that thing called intimacy, that thing called relationship.

Dina Alexander: (09:40)

Absolutely. It's so important. And we just, again, we, we forget and think about, I, you know, how busy we are as parents. That's again, why we made those lessons short and simple, even for the older kids. Like there is a lesson on emotional intimacy. Mm-hmm . There is discussion of the progression of a relationship because that is something that is falling apart in our culture. We have kids, teenagers thinking that, you know, most of a relationship is gonna happen via text and second or third date, that's when we're gonna give oral sex. And it's like a handshake. Yeah. Instead of it being special and intimate. So there's just a lot of important topics that are meant to get our kids thinking. Even, you know, those older kids, let's say you haven't had any discussions and your child is now 10, 11, 12. It's like, that's okay. Mm-hmm . You're gonna, you're you. There's never too early. It's never too late. You're gonna start getting your kids thinking about their, what they want in life, their self-respect that they are deserving of. Again, they're deserving of a healthy, good relationship.

Hillary Wilkinson: (10:53)

I love it. Yeah. And I think we can't talk about sexual development with kids anymore without addressing pornography. Absolutely. And you can't talk about porn without talking about screens, which that's mm-hmm . That's how we ended up,

Dina Alexander: (11:08)

That's right.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:09)

At the UCAP conference. And I just wanna interject, I want families to recognize the average age of exposure to pornography at this point is between eight and 11 years old. So you're, look, you're talking about a third grader. Yeah. And the fastest-growing sexual crimes are child-on-child sex abuse.

Dina Alexander: (11:29)

Absolutely.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:30)

And that's because kids see something and then they're curious and so they go and they try to replicate behavior. Typically on younger children around them. So yeah, that translates to siblings, cousins, neighbors, you know, fill in the blank. So, Healthy Screen Habits, stance on porn. I wanna reiterate, 'cause I think this is so critical that we say this again and again. It's not morality based. That's right. You get to decide the values for your family, but our stance on porn comes from a public health threat.

Dina Alexander: (12:09)

I agree with that. 'cause again, like people, again, we think of it as when we as adults, right? What we see. And so a lot of parents might be like, oh, what's the big deal? Da da da dah. But we have to remember those undeveloped brains of 8, 9, 10, even 15, 16, consuming pornography and thinking that no means yes. Or that she deserves it. 'cause as you know, in porn, you know, a woman is never a woman. She's a girl, she's a sl–, she's a wh–. And those kind of behaviors, you know, it's usually there's some form of like, you know, body-punishing sex for the woman. And I think of it as every future lawyer, doctor, policeman is being raised on a diet of porn seeing this. And that's frightening. When we think of all of our future leaders, legislators having watched this and thinking there's, you know, there's no way to think less, you're gonna think less of yourself or the opposite gender when you are watching this.

Dina Alexander: (13:13)

And again, as a child and as a young person, those images are being, you know, imprinted. I know that a lot of people, you know, worry about addiction. I worry about the fact that these images basically become part of a child or teenager's belief system. That this is where it becomes part of their, you know, that sexual template is being created between eight and 12. And when these are the images that are being, you know, imprinted on their brain, that is a worry. That is, that is a huge concern. And that is a public health issue.

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:51)

Yeah. We have to take a quick break, but when we come back, let's get more into your books.

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Hillary Wilkinson:

I'm speaking with Dina Alexander, author of 30 Days of Sex Talks. So we talked a little bit earlier about the younger kid's book. That would be the one that's for ages three to seven. And now let's talk about the slightly older kid's book. Like you've gotten into some of it a little bit, but this one is geared for kiddos age. Actually, I've got , I, I wrote it down wrong in my notes. It's eight to what's

Dina Alexander: (15:01)

The 11?

Hillary Wilkinson: (15:01)

Eight to 11. Okay. The, the, the math I had written down wasn't making sense. Okay. So we've got three to seven, and then we've got 8 to 11. And I gotta give you credit, Dina, you start out the gate in that 8 to 11 book with anatomy, puberty, mechanics of intercourse. You, I mean, a lot of stuff that quite frankly, many people, like of my generation, were handed a book or told to, um, read the box of tampons, the package insert for instruction. And, you know, so knowing that the equivalent of that today is Google, right? Yeah. Why, why do you come from this standpoint if it's not already clear? By the way, I introed that. Why do we want to be our kids go-to for sex ed instead of a Google search?

Dina Alexander: (16:01)

So when a child, they might be curious and they're doing simple, innocent searches looking for answers, especially if they have a parent that has given the message of, we don't talk about this. And there's a lot of ways that parents give that message without even realizing it. And so that is why we need to be really obvious about, you can talk to me about these things. That's why we start the conversation, you know, about a lot of these topics. But when a child has that innocent search, they heard the word vagina, they wanna see boobs. You know, this is an 8, 9, 10-year-old girl or boy, and they're coming away, instead of just seeing a few sexy pictures that are half-clothed women, like, you know, we might've seen in a Playboy magazine 30 years ago. Instead, they're coming away with some pretty violent pornography.

Dina Alexander: (16:55)

They're stumbling upon things that most adults don't even understand, that they certainly are not practicing in their sexual relationships. And again, they're coming across really misogynistic images. They're coming across things that, you know, are, you know, not intimacy-based. People don't realize there's nothing intimate in pornography. Mm-hmm . It's about the act. There's no handholding, hugging, caressing now that for quote feminist porn, they do add a tiny bit of that to draw women in a couple of kisses and a couple of caresses, but it still ends the same way. Right. With the woman on her knees or something. Right. So this is my big concern of where we wanna, of where we need to be the source we need to let our kids know they can come and talk to us and ask us anything. That's also, this is just the building blocks for amazing relationships with your kids.

Dina Alexander: (17:58)

Right. This is how they know. Maybe they have a friend who they're concerned about is suicidal. Maybe they're trying to decide if they're gay or straight. They're trying to come out, or they're just trying to figure out their own body. Yes. Maybe I'm gonna get my period and I'm scared. How do I talk? You know, who am I? They should know and feel like they can talk to mom or dad, no big deal. Like, this is not a big deal. That's why we approach these conversations calmly, matter of fact, not like this is an event and we need to be nervous and

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:33)

The Yeah. And using the correct language.

Dina Alexander: (18:37)

Absolutely.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:37)

Like the, the word porn, when you drop it in a crowd of people is a real, it's a real, uh, conversation stopper, . But except in my house where, I mean, we talk, we talk about pornography, we talk about porn, we talk about, you know, I mean all the stuff all the time. Yeah. Because it kind of, you know, to borrow from Harry Potter, it had to be the thing that could be named to bring it out into the light. So say the words, say the name, and Yeah. And it, it, it gives you the power back for it.

Dina Alexander: (19:11)

Yeah. And it's amazing what your kids will come back with as you create these conversations. And, you know, maybe you're scared to talk about, you don't wanna go right to penis and vagina. That's okay. You know, our books, uh, start with, you can talk about relationships, you can talk about respect. You can talk about, um, puberty, whatever these other things that are maybe a little less intimidating. And you start those. 'cause especially a lot of families will have, say, the one child that doesn't wanna talk about it, maybe it's not the parents that are uncomfortable. Maybe it's one of your kids is uncomfortable. Well, that's where you start with these simpler, maybe less, like I said, intimidating topics. And you start building that foundation to talk about some of the more serious things. And what I have found over the years, each of my kids has shared incredible crazy stuff that is going on at their high school.

Dina Alexander: (20:06)

Mm-hmm . Conversations happening in the back of the classroom that you would never guess, um, that you just don't like. So I like, here's an example. So I was doing a little YouTube, um, video on predators, and so it's on YouTube, but I was describing about how predators groom kids. And I had my, my 16-year-old son, um, edit it. And he finished it, and he was like, he's like, “Mom, everything you said on that was right.” And in my mind I'm like, “Well, duh, of course it's right.” Right. But he was like, and I was like, well, what do you mean? And he goes, there was a kid in my class, and he was showing me like that he had gotten these nude photos of his girlfriend or this girl. And I asked about it, and he was like, he, I asked, how did he get that?

Dina Alexander: (20:53)

And he said, he started telling my son about it. And he was like, it was grooming. He had paid her compliments. He had made her feel special given her little gifts, these little things to basically, you know, groom this other, this girl. And so our kids, you know, again, are learning how to do these grooming behaviors. They're basically learning to be abusive by watching pornography. But when you are ab my point though, is that when you start these conversations and continue them, you are gonna, you're opening the door for your kids to tell you and talk to you about so many different things. And it is such an amazing thing to be able to, to, you know, sit at the dinner table and have your kids be so open with you. It's, it's an amazing feeling and it's an amazing bond that you can build.

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:47)

Right. And so many people believe that porn specifically is a boy problem. Mm. Can you, can you talk about that?

Dina Alexander: (21:57)

I wish,

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:57)

Share what, you know. Yeah.

Dina Alexander: (21:59)

It's, it's, it's really not. Because again, a few years ago, the industry, the porn industry realized, oh, we have half the population that we could make money from. So they started gearing marketing porn toward women and girls. And that's again, where we have feminist porn or a big, um, a popular search term is porn for women. And like I said, they, it's, it's got about two minutes, one minute more of kissing or romance, quote unquote in it. And then it's the same as the rest of the porn. It's still, not intimacy based. There's sometimes name calling. There's still sometimes hitting or slapping or spitting, you know, on women. There's still these things, but they, they, it's manipulative. Right. They are the absolute, they are geniuses. These are not, you know, small-time, you know, little producers. These are people who know the culture, know their craft, and know how to hook people, especially kids, into more watching more and more. And it is no way that it is just a boy problem anymore. I have spoken with so many girls, and the, you know, the worst thing we can do is treat our girls like there's something wrong with them, or they're weird if, because they have seen it or because they're tempted by it too. It's like trying to, it's like, it's like if we act like it's okay for boys to masturbate and it's not okay for girls.

Hillary Wilkinson: (23:34)

Right. Right. And, and interestingly, from what I've read, girls tend to view porn together. They, it tends to be more of a group activity of, oh, look up this, look up that. Whereas boys tend to be solitary, like the the initial exposure Yeah. Will be, will be more like that. And so let's, let's swing this back around to kind of healthy screen habits land, and how can teaching our kids to be media savvy help form this more healthy sense of self that will kind of also teach them about this. Um, you know, they, they call, they refer to these things as like, digital drugs, you know? Mm-hmm.

Dina Alexander: (24:26)

Mm-hmm. I like that. So media, being media savvy means that you're able to look at, um, a video or an image and break it down, right. And to see past the overt image, right. Because we might see, um, there might be, we might view pornography and we're captivated perhaps by the sex, right? Okay. Whoa. Our human biological brains, we are gonna be drawn toward naked bodies. Just like when we're at the beach, our eyes are immediately drawn toward the skin around us, men and women. Right? That's nothing, that doesn't mean that we're bad people or we're sexist or whatever, or perverts. It's human nature that we are, our eyes are drawn towards skin, right? And so we want our kids to understand pornography or any media that they are consuming, that there are values being shared, that there are hidden messages. And that, you know, particularly with say, uh, pornography, that there, the hidden message is that, you know, typically is you can do anything you want to a woman.

Dina Alexander: (25:37)

And that, that she's less than, you know, most of the time in pornography, like this is a media savvy point, is that typically the woman is at a lower position than the man. She might be on her knees, on her back, whatever, but she is always beneath the man, is typically what I have seen in porn. That's a small thing, but that's a big message. Mm-hmm . If she's always down, you know, lower, lesser than him, it's a big message when she's not called a woman, when she's called a, a, even just a girl. It's the same thing that the Nazis did by never calling Jewish people, Jewish people, by trying to make them be seen as animals. It made them feel okay to treat them poorly. And it's the same thing with pornography. We don't, you know, people viewing this, don't wanna think of this as, oh, that could be my sister, my mother, my, my aunt.

Dina Alexander: (26:31)

They wanna think of this as this is some slut who wants it or deserves it. And she's, you know, asking for it, let's say. Right? So these are, you know, those, those messages, you know, like, we wanna think, like I said, it's just sex. But they are, you know, there's those, that's why, you know, a lot of kids, they're also, if they feeling bad about their bodies, that they can't, you know, both boys and girls, what they view pornography typically feel bad about their own bodies because they can't, they don't look like the ideal, you know, or they're not performing the gymnastics that's going on sometimes in pornography. Right? So these are, you know, things to help our kids. We want them to understand. And I'm not saying, Hey, sit down and show your kids porn tonight and break it down. But I'm saying maybe look at a commercial, listen to a song and break it down and talk about with your child, what is the message there?

Dina Alexander: (27:29)

You know, you can do this with like a commercial. What are they selling? Why are they acting the way they are? Why is, why are they acting like that hamburger is the best thing in the entire world? You know, what are, they're trying to get us to buy something, right? And so, same thing with pornography. They're trying to get us to stay and watch, right? So they are going to show outrageous things. They're gonna sometimes humiliate the woman in order to get us curious and thinking, what's going on there? Or why are they, you know, we're, we're hooked in because, you know, it's sex, right? It's exciting, it's interesting. But also helping our kids, this is a great discussion I had with my kids, was helping them understand that when we have sex sexual imagery, typically the violence disappears. It's hard to see that there is a, a certain level of violence in most pornography, even if that level of violence is just name calling, right. Or light slaps to the woman, right? But they tend to disappear because we're so focused in on the sex, right.

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:40)

Or the rest of the person disappears. Mm-hmm . It becomes very objective in that. It's like they just, it's just certain, certain. That's right. Parts. And like the complete, you know, there's no shots above the neck.

Dina Alexander: (28:53)

That's right. Again, like that,

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:54)

Like until the, until the quote unquote money shot.

Dina Alexander: (28:58)

Yeah. And so, and that's a, that's such an important point you're making because that's also how we can dehumanize mm-hmm . And not think of this as a human woman who deserves love and respect. Because if she's just an object to be screwed, then, then it, then we can, we don't have to feel guilty watching that, right? Mm-hmm . We can just look at that and ha ha, that's, you know, or isn't that, you know, hot instead of thinking of, this is a human, this is a person, you know, that deserves compassion. And so that's like, again, there was a, there's a great TED talk where, um, the speaker refers to porn as sex without hands, that you don't see hands, like say loving and caressing because they're focused in on the orifices. Right. Or they're focused in on the penis and the vagina and the act, not the human.

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:50)

Mm-hmm . Yeah. So we have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Dina for her healthy screen habit.

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Hillary Wilkinson

I am speaking with Dina Alexander, mom of three, and founder of Educate and Empower Kids. 

Dina, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. And this is gonna be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. What's yours?

Dina Alexander: (30:37)

I, there's so many things I could say, but with our conversation, I think it's so important to, again, build those amazing relationships with your kids. Whether your time to chat in your family is, if that's at bedtime, if it's at dinner, wherever you can get your kids to start sharing. And it might be as simple as asking your kids questions like, “What was the best and worst part of your day?” You know, what, um, you know, “What do you wanna be when you grow up? Who is, you know, what's something nice that you did for other people today?” And you might think, what does that have to do with screens? But that, again, when you're building that relationship, that's when you can start getting ready again for these deeper conversations to talk about uncomfortable things like porn, like masturbation, like sexual harassment, like the good things, right?

Dina Alexander: (31:31)

Like sexual intimacy and having boyfriends and girlfriends and the fun things there. You build that, and that is going to help them to be more media savvy, but it's more importantly that they're gonna talk to you when they've been exposed to porn, when they've seen something inappropriate. 'cause it's confusing to a child. It's, it's, they're simultaneously turned on and traumatized. Mm-hmm . This is so confusing for a young child. So if we can build that rapport, build that relationship to be as close as possible, then when they have seen something inappropriate, or maybe they've seen something hilarious and amazing on a screen, whatever, they wanna talk to you and share it with you.

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:13)

As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show and a link to Dina's website, which has her amazing books by visiting the show notes for this episode. You do this by going to healthyscreenhabits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. Dina, thank you so much for being here today and for helping families get through some, some tricky topics, some things that are hard to talk about. 

Dina Alexander: (32:42)

Yeah.

Thank you. I loved being here.