For More Info:

https://www.ryanhuh.com/starting-over

https://www.healthyscreenhabits.org/episode-11-recognizing-gaming-addiction-hilarie-cash-of-restart-life

https://www.restartlife.com/

One of the best ways that I have found to connect with my own teens around the topics of technology and other things that I'm wanting to take a deeper dive into is through the use of film and movies. Not unlike when my guys were young. I would use picture books to introduce topics. I often use movies and films to foster deeper connections and have deeper conversations on tricky topics. So if you're a parent of, or someone who, is currently struggling with the overuse of video games or technology, I have a fantastic new documentary for you to explore. Its name is Starting Over, and the writer and director is here today to discuss it. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Ryan Huh.

Ryan Huh: (01:28)

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk today.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:30)

Great. Ryan, what brought you to want to make a documentary on this topic of digital overuse and, um, recovery?

Ryan Huh: (01:42)

Yeah, so, you know, what really brought me to this story and this project it's really a two-part journey. Um, it started originally probably like most people, you know, during Covid time, which was really when I started to uncover this problem of just using my phone too much, just using my screens too much and just not connecting with the people around me. So, you know, in all transparency, I'm 22 years old right now, um, just fresh outta college, uh, studying filmmaking at NYU Tisch. And so basically during the COVID time, I was in high school. And so basically, you know, during this time, um, I was, you know, just figuring my life out. I'm a young 18-year-old man, so I'm just trying to figure out all these things. What am I gonna do in my life?

Ryan Huh: (02:22)

And during this time, I really started to notice that obviously I'm spending, you know, lots of time on technology. I'm spending lots of time on my phone, and I really started to notice how, like, you know, as a young guy, I just wanna have some good, you know, some good time with my friends and my family. And I really realized how I'm trying to connect with my friends. And just during these moments when I try to connect with my friends, I realized that, you know, our phones and just the way we're constantly infiltrated with all these thoughts from social media about what we need to think, what we need to, how we need to act like, it almost made, you know, making friends during that time feel like a performance. So that really, you know, I felt really moved by this problem. It felt like such a huge problem in my own life.

Ryan Huh: (03:03)

Going forward from this time, it was honestly just looking at this one problem. This seemed like the biggest problem in my life at the time, because also, you know, I also felt like, you know, I was able to grow up, you know, pretty, you know, pretty privileged where I have like, you know, I never had to worry about food. I never had to worry about, you know, money too much. I don't have to worry about these really big problems. And for me, um, I'm just looking around with like, the people in my life, the people, um, the loved ones in my life, and really just not being able to connect with these people and feeling like this, um, this, this barrier between us. It really felt like it was because technology. So, you know, from that point, that seemed like the biggest problem that was just around me.

Ryan Huh: (03:43)

So then as I kind of went to college, I kind of wanted to figure out how I can, you know, help this problem because this was the problem that I knew that I experienced firsthand, and I felt like I had the knowledge for how to help people, um, grow outta this problem. So actually, you know, from there, it was a couple years later was when I had made this connection with Hilarie Cash. Um, and Hillary Cash is a, a psychologist who, you know, actually co-founded Restart Life, which is the subject of this documentary. It's a technology addiction rehab center. Um, so that was, you know, it was really interesting and fascinating to make this connection with her at this time. So, yeah, uh, zoom forward to a couple years later, I met Hilarie Cash and she was actually going on this really interesting trip, um, because she wanted to learn more about how this problem of technology and, you know, technology issues specifically to mental health issues was not just, you know, not because she knew all about how it affected people in America, um, affected the clients that she worked with because she's really been working in this field for a very long time.

Ryan Huh: (04:48)

But she wanted to kind of learn more firsthand, just talk to people in other countries as well, um, and kind of more developing nations where the problem is, you know, of course their technology is a bit more new since they're, you know, slowly starting to implement it into their, you know, cultures and worlds as well. So we actually traveled to Kenya together, um, during that time. And, you know, it was really like, it was really all about, just during that time, you know, getting to know the people in Kenya and how they were dealing with this, like, new problem as well, and just understanding, like, just trying to, you know, kind of getting that, you know, a little bit of a global perspective, just focusing on those individual people, um, in those different areas. And it was really fascinating, um, during that time. So I actually traveled with her during, on that trip.

Ryan Huh: (05:32)

Um, I was helping document some of the journey as well with her, documenting some of the conversations we had with different people in Kenya during that time. So it was really fascinating. So, um, after we took that trip, then, you know, a couple years later, I, you know, I thought about it and I was like, you know, we had that amazing ship in Kenya, but, um, you know, Hilarie has her, you know, her center, uh, in Washington State, um, here in the US. Why don't I tell that story there? Because, you know, I have this connection with Hilarie now, and I am really fascinated by, you know, now, you know, understanding this problem a little bit more, getting a little bit more experience in it. So I really wanted to tell this story and learn more about how people are dealing with it, especially people who have reached a point in their life when they felt like, you know, this, uh, this, you know, using technology becomes an addiction. So they feel like it has brought their life so, so bad that they need to get outside and professional help. So we really wanted to, you know, go in and tell this story.

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:42)

That's great. I, um, I had the opportunity to interview Hillary Cash several seasons back. I'll link that interview in the show notes. And, uh, Hil…, of course, she's got the greatest name, doesn't she? 

Ryan Huh: (06:58)

. Yeah, Hillary Cash. Cash.

Hillary Wilkinson: (07:02)

Oh, no, I'm, I'm saying Hilarie. Come on now. .

Ryan Huh: (07:06)

Oh, oh, okay. I, yeah, Hillary. Hillary, I was just thinking money. I guess that's why I think about .

Hillary Wilkinson: (07:12)

No, the best name is Hilarie. Yeah,

Ryan Huh: (07:14)

Hillary.

Hillary Wilkinson: (07:16)

But, um, yeah, uh, I'll link that episode in our show notes. And she, she is, uh, was really a pioneer in recognizing the kind of, um, overwhelming thing that was happening within our digital world of taking over people's lives through persuasive design of video games, and really was kind of one of those front runners too. She has the only residential addiction treatment center in North America at the time when I interviewed her. I don't know whether others had come up at this point.

Ryan, circling back to one of those things that you talked about, you said you felt like life was a performance as you were growing up, and I think that that is something that is new, it's new to your generation, right?

Hillary Wilkinson: (08:28)

Of this kind of on this feeling of always being on. And it kind of gets to this concept of needing to establish sanctuaries within our home, right? As one of our five core healthy screen habits. We say, you know, you have to establish times and places within your home without screens for that reason. Also, because you just need to be away from the ongoing metrics of life of like, how many counts do I have? Or how many followers, how many likes? What are my grades? What are, I just feel like, like our teens today are under so much scrutiny by themselves of just looking at the constant numbers that are following them everywhere. So, um, I would you agree with that as far as how it feels like growing up?

Ryan Huh: (09:24)

Yeah, absolutely. I think that was really one of the things that was so fascinating. And so, you know, it's so, it was, it felt like such a, you know, huge problem to me. Um, personally, it was really like, what I really, you know, thought about a lot was how, you know, I've realized, there was like this shift in values that you would have because of using, you know, social media too much using, just using technology too much. And if you just, if you just think about it, you know, from like the obvious standpoint, um, you know, if you just think about it, obviously, you know, during the covid time, lots of, you know, lots of young people were using their devices using social media. You know, their screen time could be like, you know, maybe many people could be averaging five hours, and five hours could be moderate and low for some

Hillary Wilkinson: (10:10)

For sure. Average age of screen time use for entertainment for teens today in the US is between eight and nine hours.

Ryan Huh: (10:19)

Exactly. So that,

Hillary Wilkinson: (10:20)

That's beyond school use, right? Yeah. We're talking entertainment purposes.

Ryan Huh: (10:24)

Exactly. So you just think about that sheer fact. It's obviously gonna affect how you think, and when you think about the type of thoughts and the type of things that you are constantly bombarded with, right? Imagine you're just walking through the supermarket and you just see all these advertisements in your face all the time. It's like you, it makes you think subconsciously about, you know, what you're seeing. And in that same way, I've realized, you know, as a young person during that time growing up, I realized, you know, we're constantly exposed to, you know, seeing our, seeing ourselves and measuring ourselves by these numbers and all those things. And it really does get ingrained in you where you start to measure your own value, you know, by all these numbers. Um, and not only that, it seems like, you know, performing and maybe even like just hanging out with your friends, just to be able to post something that becomes the point of everything.

Ryan Huh: (11:15)

So it reaches a point where all of a sudden, because social media is also something where we are the creators, we are the ones who are putting the content out there all of a sudden, like every single hangout, every single, you know, outing is just like, uh, it's the, the point is only to create content. So all of a sudden we are these unpaid creators, um, for, for an audience of each other, and we're just constantly making stuff trying to amuse each other, um, with that content. Yeah. So it was really, really fascinating to just think about that.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:45)

Yeah. And you think about the rise of like, the pop-up museums that basically it's just room after room after room of postable um, spaces where you can pose and take a picture, but it's not, it's not actually a museum in the sense of enriching your, your mind through art. Yeah. Or art history or sculpture or architecture. It's simply room after room after content creation. So it's, I'm not passing judgment, I'm just pointing out it's interesting.

Ryan Huh: (12:20)

Yeah, exactly.

Hillary Wilkinson: (12:22)

Yeah. So when we come back, let's talk a little bit more about your great new documentary Starting Over. 

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Hillary Wilkinson:

I'm speaking with Ryan Huh, graduate of NYU Tish School of the Arts, which I am very familiar with right now because I've been rewatching Gossip Girl with my teen. And it's where, um, the school that Vanessa gets into, for those of you who remember, uh, you know, over Joel, it causes quite a bit of angst, so it's very reputable. Um, Ryan, can you tell us what, like, um, can you give us a basic breakdown of your documentary and tell us like what, what the premise is and who is in it?

Ryan Huh: (13:23)

Yeah, exactly. So Starting Over is the name of the short documentary that we're talking about today and that we created. So basically Starting Over is a story which follows Four Men, um, at Restart Life, this technology addiction rehab center. So basically it follows, you know, them telling their own story, their own journey in their own words. Um, it's that these characters talking about their personal struggles, it's about four young men who are at four different stages of recovery. One of the young men is Theo who is preparing to enroll inside the recovery program. Another is Rory, who is kind of just starting out in the program. Another is Matt, who is nearing the end of the treatment, and another is Charlie, who actually has been in recovery and been out of the program for a decade.

It follows this journey, how, you know, we have these four different people who are at the four different stages of recovery. So we kind of follow that narrative to see first of all, you know, the connections between all four of these different stories, what led them all to be here because there are very similar arcs, um, of, you know, using technology too much and really feeling very poor about themselves. And then, um, eventually, um, after following all four of these people kind of figuring out what it takes for them to overcome, um, this technology addiction that they've really developed.

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:50)

Yeah. So Ryan, who did you make this film for? Who was your primary audience?

Ryan Huh: (14:56)

Yeah, I would say I made this film particularly, um, I wanted to show this for, especially for young people to understand, you know, about this experience. And, um, yeah, first off, for young people, for them to see, you know, people who have really, these people are really kind of at the extreme end where they need to get professional help. But, you know, just, just having these people in our documentary, um, the four subjects, having them tell their stories and kind of just talk to them, talking to them like, man to man, just as a person, you kind of understand how their stories, it could really happen to anyone. And they're really no different, um, from other people, it's just that they've kind of been exposed to the problem a little bit more. So I really wanted, um, a lot of young people specifically around my age to be able to understand and see how we can really relate, um, to how these people who have, who are at ReStart have fell really deep into the problem. And we could kind of see how, you know, we probably use technology in this in a very similar way as well, and we fall habit to those same problems.

Hillary Wilkinson: (16:00)

. I feel like, um, young men are kind of having a moment in our digital wellness world with the, um, the, the series Adolescence, which has a young 13-year-old boy and, uh, you know, as the main character and then yourself coming out with, you know, this, which focuses on the Four Men. So what, uh, because you're a guy, I'm interested, what do you think gaming or online life is providing for young men? And I'm, I'm, I'm focusing on young men just because that's like the focus of your film, but what do you think it's providing that offline life does not like? What, what is the pull?

Ryan Huh: (16:53)

With our four subjects, um, for three of them, uh, really the main problem that they were dealing with was playing video games too much. Um, and then another character of ours, um, Matt, another person in our story who we, who we interviewed Matt, his problem was really, he was running a social media meme account, actually. So he was very addicted to, um, being able to create, you know, content for an audience, and it really led to problematic behavior for him. So, you know, when I really talked to these people and how I could, was able to relate to them, it was really just about how, you know, playing video games online, it starts like very innocent. It's like the same way how, you know, boys, you know, we just wanna go play basketball with your friends, you know, play at the park.

Ryan Huh: (17:36)

And that's like video games could serve that same purpose at first, where you're just playing with your friends, but you know, a common through line that every single one of them had. And when we were talking together was eventually, you know, it becomes not about socializing anymore. And eventually it became just about that rush that you can get, you know, from playing the games. And that was really fascinating to hear how they all kind of had that same experience. Um, and it was really interesting to know that, you know, playing these video games and playing, um, and, you know, using social media, things like that, it can give us the outlet to feel successful, to feel accomplished to, you know, go through a hard task and be rewarded for it for us. So it's really dangerous because we get that instant reward, which is so easy, and it's so easy to just, you know, get, get ahead of that and need one more and need one more and need one more. So it was really fascinating to hear.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:31)

Yeah. So doing that reward system, doing that difficult task, but without, um, without having to engage any of our other senses. Right? I mean, but there's, um, it's a, there's a very big difference between, you know, I've, I've watched a lot of hours of Zelda at my house, , and you know, I mean, Link is amazing, you know, climbing cliffs and hopping on these horse things. I don't know what they are, but yeah, I mean, you can do that very quickly. You can learn those skills very quickly online, without fostering any muscles, heart rate, respiration rate, that, um, you would get engaging in offline life.

Ryan Huh: (19:23)

Absolutely. And it was really also another thing we talked about. It was like, it was just really also another way to just cope with, you know, problems people have in your life. Mm. Um, like, obviously a lot of these different people that we talk to and myself as well, you know, obviously you're gonna have struggles in your life. You, you know, you have times where you're failing school or you have times where you just don't know what to do with your life. Your job sucks. And then, you know, when you're dealing with all these problems, which really feel terrible, you can, you know, go online and you have that instant reward and you, you know, you get lost in like that little dopamine hit. And that's what all these different people, you know, we talked to kind of related to how they were using, you know, their video games, how they were using, you know, social media to just get that rush where they could kind of forget about some of the problems that they were really dealing with. And in that way it kind of, kind of froze you in, inaction. Mm.

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:15)

I like that phrase. It froze you. Yeah. So Ryan, where can people watch this? We're giving them all this good information, and I think it would foster a lot of very healthy conversation around, you know, if you were to watch it with your teens, just even in talking about like, you know, long-term goals of where would you like to be at this age, or where would you like to, you know, do you, do you have these feelings? What does I, I like rephrasing it. Like what does the game provide you that online life does not, you know, like, what does this do for you, you know, but, um, so that people can have these conversations, uh, where can people watch it?

Ryan Huh: (20:58)

Absolutely. So people could watch the film, um, on my personal website. And so my personal website is ryan hu.com, and so you could go to ryan hu.com/starting over. So the film will be available to watch there, and it's a, it's a private YouTube link that you'll be able to watch. So hopefully also, you know, we have the private YouTube link that, you know, the audience can watch. And we're also hoping to, you know, hopefully get this film, you know, seen at different, um, different film festivals as well to kind of continue to, um, spread this conversation.

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:27)

I'll link all of that in the show notes. So I have to ask, did working on this project change any of your online habits?

Ryan Huh: (21:42)

So, for changing my online habits, I don't think, you know, for me it really wasn't specifically about like the online habits. I think it was more about, you know, I do admit, you know, when I went into this project, I feel like I had a bit of a bias where I felt like, you know, I'm just going into this project and obviously, you know, I'm talking to people who are clients at Restart who have suffered, you know, for technology addiction. So I sort of, you know, just thought of these guys as, oh, they're just addicts, type of thing, right? I kind of put this label on them, and it kind of made me feel a little bit superior, you know, to them I realized I had that bias where I felt like, “Oh, that could never happen to me. It's, you know, it's not my problem.

Ryan Huh: (22:23)

It's these are the people who are dealing with the problem.” And really, when I, you know, started to talk to them and, you know, it was just as simple as just sitting down with people and just looking them in the eye and just saying, “Hi, how are you? Nice to meet you.” And having that conversation with them, I really just like came to realize how the same way that first of all, that they, you know, started to have this problem and fell deep into this problem where they, you know, became a hundred percent addicted. Um, I also realized, you know, how much hard work it is just to just to work on yourself, um, and just tried to get better. I also realized, it's, it's difficult hard work to, kind of claim your narrative that you're recovering.

Ryan Huh: (23:05)

Um, and I realized how powerful it, uh, it is to like claim that narrative. So I think honestly, it was more about, for me, just, um, learning that lesson, um, experiencing that lesson about how important, your identity and your narrative is, and, for a lot of people, you know, using, you know, social media specifically or video games that can become your identity and it can be so powerful because,online, you are told who you are based on all the, numbers and things like that, it's very easy to label ourselves in that identity. And I realized, identity is so much more complex. Um, everyone is working hard to just improve themselves. So it's, it's really just giving people that dignity and understanding people's story. And I think it's that it goes a long way.

Hillary Wilkinson: (23:55)

Uhhuh . So do you find yourself posting as much as you used to or let, like about your, your, what about your online presence?

Ryan Huh: (24:05)

Yeah, so I think for my online presence, um, I do understand that, you know, you need to, um, strike sort of a balance as well because people need to be able to, you know, obviously share who they are online to be able to meet new people. But at that same time, you can't rely on that becoming your everything. So I think really, um, really what I took away from this project was trying to, you know, prioritize who I am in real life first, which is really what, you know, these people really come to restart for. Mm-hmm . Um, one of the things they talk about is they have like a, just as simple, um, uh, as simple as having a life plan just to, you know, sort of map out what their life picture looks like, because that's something when they're just playing video games all day, they have absolutely no idea, makes it very, just as,

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:50)

Yeah, brings in the focus.

Ryan Huh: (24:52)

It's so narrow. So just as simple as being able to, um, you know, start with my own intentions, my own values first, then using technology to aid that, not using technology and then adding the values using you, um, starting with yourself first, then using technology to aid that.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:11)

Mm-hmm . So we have to take another short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Ryan Huh for his healthy screen habit.
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 I'm speaking with Ryan Hu, director of Starting Over, a must-see documentary on the journey of four young men as they work to recover from gaming addiction, and screen overuse. Ryan, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. This is gonna be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home and in their own lives. So what is yours?

Ryan Huh: (26:07)

So what I would specifically say is just this one line, use your technology and don't let your technology use you. So what, when I really talk about that, what that really comes across for myself, how I really think about that is you want to be able to have technology in place, um, have your social media in place as well, that aids you in like your own professional goals, your own personal goals, um, and not, not have your technology shape who you are and tell you what to do. So, you know, there's some small ways that you could do it that I really love to do. It's just like, you know, now there's been a lot of push to add lots of features, you know, lots of screen time features on Apple, on iPhone, things like that. And these like features are kind of difficult to find.

Ryan Huh: (26:51)

Um, but if you just kind of dig through your settings, have some fun with that, you kind of can figure out how you can configure your phone, um, to kind of be able to aid you and your own goals. You know, for myself, I know personally, uh, I just try not, you know, I'm working, I don't want to use my phone too much, I don't wanna be distracted. So I like to, you know, just as simple as setting up, you know, your notifications so they don't, uh, constantly interrupt you. Um, you know, because when you're using, when you're constantly distracting and switching between tasks, that's like, you're wasting so much time from doing that. So, you know, instead of having to check your, your phone notifications every five minutes, um, trying to bash that together, it can really be helpful. And it's just, you know, understanding that, you know, these are supposed to be tools, um, and letting them stay as tools and not having them tell us, uh, when, when we should use our devices.

Hillary Wilkinson: (27:40)

Great. Sorry. Okay. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show as well as a link to Ryan's website by visiting the show notes for this episode. I'll also include a link to that previous interview with Hillarie Cash from ReStart. Do this by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. Ryan, thank you so much for being, I find it so like rewarding and fascinating and fantastic that we are hearing more and more voices of Gen Z enter the chat of digital wellness because truly it is like, I mean, you're, as you come forward, you guys have had the experience, the boots on the ground experience of growing up with technology and figuring out how to balance it all. And thank you so much for giving us this new tool to help foster better connections and better conversation within our own families.

Ryan Huh: (28:45)

Thank you so much for having me.