For More Info:

https://www.bridgecamp.com/

Resources Mentioned:

https://www.elizabethsmartfoundation.org/smart-defense

https://discovernac.org/

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:00)

As promised, with Season 13, I am here to deliver tools and strategies to help your summer resonate with success. Now, our mission at Healthy Screen Habits is to educate and empower families to create their healthiest screen habits while maintaining technology as a tool, never a replacement for human connection. And as it turns out, one of the greatest ways to do this is by not only spending time with your child, but combining it with another type of experience. And this is where my guests today thrive as the father-son, co-founders of Bridge Camp. They believe in the power of human and relational connection, particularly between parents and their kids. The belief is that the stronger the connection is between their parents and their teens, the more likely the teen will make better and healthier life decisions, especially as they transition into adulthood. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits. Dan and Dave Gray!

Dan & Dave Gray: (01:17)

Thank you so much for having us. Thank you, Hillary.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:20)

So I hear camp and particularly something like Bridge Camp, and I think adventure and every good adventure story has a great story of origin, kind of a, where it all began. And I think that's a great place to start. What's yours?

Dan & Dave Gray: (01:45)

Well, thank you, Hillary. This is Dan. I'm the dad of the duo here, and it's a real pleasure to be here with you, by the way. And thanks for having us. Uh, the story is pretty long, and so I'll try to really condense it very quickly for you. Um, I'm, I'm a therapist. I'm an LCSW. Been treating individuals and families and couples. And so, over the many years that I've been doing this, I have noticed real patterns with the men in particular that I've worked with, that the origins of their story goes way back into their childhood and teen years and difficulties that they had really connecting with their parents, where they didn't get much guidance and direction as to how to navigate the world of, uh, the internet and the exposure that they had to pornography at a very early age.

Dan & Dave Gray: (03:02)

And then also developing healthy views of sexuality. Mm-hmm . And so they go through their teens and then into their adult life with real struggles, and then find themselves into that world of addiction when it relates to those sexual issues. And that's where they then would come to me, and then we'd have to sort through all of this and those consistent patterns that I saw made me really believe and see that we needed to help our families, help our children and our parents connect so that they can establish a pattern, again, of then, uh, relationship issues where they are able to listen to each other, learn so that the parents could be mentors to their kids rather than obstacles to their development. And then I reflected a lot upon my own relationship with my dad, remembering the lessons that I received from him. And the things that I remember are not the times that he sat down with me in a living room or in a car and talked to me.

Dan & Dave Gray: (04:10)

It was while we were engaged in activities mm-hmm . We were fishing, or we were boxing, or we were throwing ball in the backyard. And it's the things that he taught me while we were engaged together, doing things that I liked to do, where I sensed that he wanted to be with me, and I was much more open to his guidance and counsel. And so then, uh, I, I have three sons, um, and reflected on my relationship with them, Dave being my oldest son here, and, uh, being able to see really what worked and what didn't work. I wasn't a perfect parent, that we tried to create those connecting times for adventure, being out in the outdoors, um, doing those things that they like to do, serving together, uh, going together and, uh, mowing grandma and grandpa's lawns, uh, doing those things that are help, you know, helping in the community.

Dan & Dave Gray: (05:09)

And it set a pattern that I saw that I had then a dream to someday day be able to structure a program which led us to Bridge Camp mm-hmm . Where we can officially do this and provide an opportunity for parents and teens in particular. To provide a camp environment that they are able to experience service and adventure and learning opportunities together and hopefully establish some of those patterns that they can then take with them and take home with them and implement in their everyday life together. And even then include the rest of their family members mm-hmm . And so we had an opportunity to start this nonprofit program. We received some ex, uh, pretty considerable funding from some philanthropists that were interested in the dream.

Dan & Dave Gray: (06:12)

And so we've been doing it now for about two or three years, and it's been just a phenomenal experience. Awesome. So that's the background. Awesome. And can I, can I chime in just a little bit there too? Of course. This, this is Dave. And, uh, just to, just to piggyback a little bit on what Dan, um, uh, was expressing and yes, as growing up, we, uh, were always involved in doing outdoors activities and, and doing kind of, uh, uh, r rites of passage as we turn 12 and going on hikes and, you know, meeting with our grandparents and our grandfathers and having them teach us about, you know, what it is to, to be a man and, and to grow into adulthood and, and to going into teenage years. Those were impactful times for me. And then particularly for me, um, about 10, 10, 11 years ago, I went through a pretty difficult divorce and it was a very difficult time for me.

Dan & Dave Gray: (07:07)

And my kids were young, they were two and five. And because of our particular situation, I ended up having the kids for about 90% of the time for about three to four years. And while it was amazing for me to have the time with them, it made it really, really difficult also to try and be working full-time and, and getting used to a new, a new system of, you know, of living. And, and, um, and I went through some pretty dark times. And honestly, I can say that the connection with my kids is really what got me out of the dark places. And, um, and it really solidified the importance to me of those, the parent, child, parent kid relationship, not only from the example of my parents and how the connection between us, my, my growing up years, how that was impactful and important in our family, but going through such a difficult, tough time and realizing that the connection between me and my kids is really what brought me out of, uh, like the most difficult time in my life.

Dan & Dave Gray: (08:07)

And so, as the opportunity arose about three years ago, for us to, um, be involved with some different nonprofit efforts and organizations that we had been involved with in our other, um, endeavors, like with Elizabeth Smart and some other different, you know, amazing people who are doing amazing work, um, my dad and I kind of just started brainstorming of different ideas and things we could do. And with the changes in the Boy Scout program over the recent years, which, you know, were much needed, much needed changes, but we're also recognizing, as my dad was mentioning with the families he was working with, you know, parents were obviously dealing with some of their own personal issues and their relationship issues, but they were still having to be functional parents while they're going through their own difficult times. And with this technological and technologically advanced world, screen times take over, right?

Dan & Dave Gray: (08:58)

Mm-hmm . And parents were finding it more and more through my dad and through our, our, my dad's practice and other therapists we were working with closely. Parents were struggling to know how to connect with their kids. And, uh, the struggle with balancing, um, screen time, gaming, social media, and, uh, the lack of getting outdoors with programs like sc you know, the scouting program and things. It all just kind of created this perfect storm for us to create a really unique program that, um, allows for families to have connection opportunities that are unique and different. There aren't any other programs like what we are offering, um, that I found and, and that we have found. There are some, you know, bible camp experiences, some church type, um, related camps and programs that people can do. But this is, this is very unique. It's, it really is not a therapeutic program. It's not a church program, it's a relational program. Mm-hmm . And, um, so that, I, I just wanted to add, to add my, my little 2 cents there. Um, you know, everything that my dad mentioned is, is, uh, definitely, uh, get, got us on the road to where we are, but my personal experience with my kids, um, really kind of spearheaded, to help us create where, where we are now.

Hillary Wilkinson: (10:15)

Yeah. And I appreciate that, um, you recognize, I think, you know, particularly when we're parenting, um, younger children, it feels very, very one way, you know, the relationship, it's a very, very managerial, very transactional, very one way. But I think it's so interesting to hear you having had that experience of like, oh no, it comes back. It's, it's like a tide. It's not a river, you know, it comes in and it goes out both ways. It's very beautiful. It's a beautiful, beautiful reason to want to, uh, increase relationship. And I love your focus on adventure specifically, because I feel like there's, I don't know, I feel like, I feel like people need to be outdoors more anyways, for a variety of so many reasons, but

Dan & Dave Gray: (11:14)

Absolutely.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:15)

Can you give a breakdown of what happens at BridgeCamp? What are the kinds of things you do? And you touched a little bit about who the campers are, but, um, I'd like to hear more about that as well.

Dan & Dave Gray: (11:28)

Sure. You want me to take that? Yeah, yeah. Alright. Um, so the, the camps are designed for a one-on-one parent-teen experience. So oftentimes we have parents call and say, “Hey, can, I've got two teenagers, can I bring both of them?” And maybe down the road we'll get to a point where we'll create the curriculum steps that that can happen. But for right now, it's a one-on-one parent teen experience. So teenagers age range from 12 to 17. We can make some exceptions there depending on, on the family's particular situation. But, uh, 12 to 17 and our camps really are for a mix. If it's a mother-daughter or a mother-son or a father-son,  father-daughter. Um, we do have two camps dedicated to the, um, in the year for a father, one for a father-son, one for a mother-daughter. And, um, uh, so there, there's different, you know, different camping opportunities.

Dan & Dave Gray: (12:20)

We have two different locations. One is just east of Park City, Utah, uh, at a place called Camp Oakley, uh, Weber Canyon. And the other location is at a place in southern Utah called Veyo Pools. And those locations kind of, um, dictate a little bit what our adventure activities are. So for example, at the Camp Oakley location, we are able to do a, an, an equine experience with horses. We are, uh, we, we do a high ropes course adventure with the NAC, the National Ability Center. Uh, we do a self-defense program with the Elizabeth Smart Program. We have some of their instructors come and give a, uh, a two-hour course and, uh, program on self-defense and, and basic, you know, self, uh, uh, combat training basically. Um, we, we do all, we also do other different kinds of activities. We have fishing, we have some just basic things that, uh, encourage particular conversational, um, experiences while they're adventuring.

Dan & Dave Gray: (13:27)

So, for example, we have a, we have a little silly tradition that we, we developed at our first camp. We have a ping pong table, and we set up the table next to the river underneath, you know, underneath the, the, the mountains. And it's very picturesque. And we have, uh, about a 25-minute time where they just hit the ping pong ball and have a conversation topic that they're supposed to discuss that hopefully will create, um, a connection opportunity that's unique and maybe have an aha moment. Uh, which we have had many of the, of our participants have in different experiences. You know, one at, at, at one camp, sometimes we have a, a gaming, uh, console in set up, in, in, like in a sprinter van. And so a parent goes in, a dad will go in and sit down with his teenager and let the parent let the teenager guide a 25-minute gaming experience where there's no com, you know, no, no time limit.

Dan & Dave Gray: (14:20)

I mean, of course we put the time limit on it, but it's not the parent saying, okay, you know, you can have 30 more minutes if you read. Um, but it's a chance to create just unique opportunities, um, and, and to watch the fathers freak out as they are trying to compete with their, their son or their daughter on a, on a gaming board that they don't know anything about. It's fun to watch. And, and it's funny to hear him say gaming board, right? That's a perfect example. And there we go, , whatever it is, a stick, whatever, it's . Um, but, but one example, like the adventuring part, it really is, it's such a key component to this because what we, what we hope to do is, is help the parent and the teen get out of their comfort zones a little bit. Because when that happens, vulnerability happens and different communication occurs, whether it's verbal or just per, you know, perception.

Dan & Dave Gray: (15:13)

Um, down at Veyo, for example, the Veyo Pools camp, it's a lot of climbing and repelling. You don't have to have any experience of, you know, climbing experience or repelling experience. But because of that location, uh, to have a, a teenage daughter, uh, belaying and, and, and being responsible for the parent or for the dad who's up there climbing 30 feet up, of course it's all supervised. And we, you know, we go through all the safety precautions, but that creates a real unique discussion later on of, of the power dynamics and how interesting and, and, and what an amazing opportunity for the, the teenager to be, you know, to hold such responsibility with their parent.

Hillary Wilkinson: (15:53)

For sure. And

Dan & Dave Gray: (15:54)

Another, and another example, we had a camp, uh, experience where a father-son were at the top of the, uh, the, the ropes course, the high ropes course, and they were supposed to be accomplishing a certain task together, and they were just butting heads. They were, they were arguing, they were getting frustrated. And we have mental health professionals. My dad is one, but we also have other therapists who are with us throughout the entire camp, and they're helping us, you know, all along. So for example, this is, this is one, one, this was a key component to this, to the camp and, and, uh, and such a good example as to what kind of adventure activities can bring out relationship situations. So the therapist noticed this conflict and went right over there up on the top of the ropes course, all, you know, clipped in and everything, and she said, “Hey, everything okay over here?

Dan & Dave Gray: (16:39)

You know, I noticed this is happening. Is this how you con, is this how you deal with conflict at home? You know, is is it with, is it a dynamic that you deal with just between you or is it something your family does?” And they were able to sit and in real time when it was happening up, you know, 40 feet in the air, discuss a, a different way and get different tools, um, to maybe handle conflict different. Wow. And, and, and, and so that's one example of, of adventure activities, it's amazing the vulnerability that occurs when we are pushed outside of our comfort zone, and we're doing it together with, with, with our family member.

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:39)

Um, well, it totally, it totally goes back to that thing that you were speaking of earlier that I picked up on, where it's like the, your focus is on this, this give and take of the relationship. You know, the parent doing something new for the first time with their kids, so their kids seeing their learning process as well. And I think that's, um, it's just, uh, it's a very, it's a very unique and kind of foundationally important way to spend time together. So when we come back, let's talk more about your great summer camp that brings families together? 

—--------------------

Ad break: HSH Workbook

—----------------------

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:27)

I'm speaking with Dan and Dave Gray, the father-son co-founders of BridgeCamp, a camp whose mission is to strengthen families by helping parents connect with their teens. And they do this by offering experiential camp programs where parents and teens come together for a weekend of adventure, service, and learning activities designed specifically to strengthen their relationship and bond like never before. Like we were hearing about that one for those two family members, literally communication solving up on the face of a cliff earlier. And do you, uh, so I think, I think the, um, the next thing I would be interested in hearing about is do you ever hear back from families who have participated in your, in your camp, in your programs? 

Dan & Dave Gray: (21:46)

Yeah. Yes, we do. Hillary, and this is Dan again. Um, maybe just how to segue into that is a follow up with that particular story, because that event kind of triggered then some other events during the camp between this father and son that then in the evening, during our learning time around the campfire, with some instructed direction on conflict resolution and active listening skills that are taught by some of our professionals, that they were able to then have a con continuation of that discussion that they had upon that ropes course event. And it then opened up some further discussions for them that we heard about later on when they got home. As we got feedback from the dad in particular, that it was crucial in his ability to then open up discussion with his son, referring back to that time at the ropes course, that time sitting in the ice bath together, uh, that time around the campfire talking, and then the time that they had when they went back to their tent with the assignment that they had to continue the discussion and had assigned topics that they were to cover while they were in the tent together before they went to bed.

Dan & Dave Gray: (23:06)

And those events really led to an ongoing discussion at home that then ended up involving also the mother and then the other siblings as they sat down at different times together and talked about the camp experience to see how they might be able to then extend that experience into talking to the family and the, the, the, the wife and the other kids about open communication. Yeah. How do we talk about conflict that we are dealing with? And we got a, an ongoing report from that particular father that we still get, actually, we've had contact with him for a couple of years, um, and he's been very supportive of our program. And it's been a pretty unique, not unique we see that type of experience, but just it's unique I can, to see how the extension of those experiences can turn into an ongoing continuation of, of progress with the family.

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:05)

Yeah. I can see how the camp and the experiences at camp would be kind of the catalyst for change. And I think that's, yeah, I think it's, um, just an amazing program, so. Well, thank

Dan & Dave Gray: (24:19)

You. Just let me add to that really quickly, too. Two of our staff members, um, are now involved because they came through with their daughters, uh, two summers ago. One of them brought one daughter at one camp and brought another daughter to another camp that summer and just said, Hey, I wanna be involved with this. This is amazing. And volunteer here volunteered her time, and now she's, now she's, you know, I mean, we, we, we don't, we don't full-time employee really, uh, anybody. But, um, you know, she is part of our staff and she comes and she's passionate about it. Um, and one of our other staff members came through with one with her son, and, uh, and they just wanted to be involved.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:23)

Kind of swinging it around to digital wellness, just so we, you know, it's healthy screen habits, so we're gotta do that course. Of course. But what, what in your, you guys have this kind of overarching view of the amazing outdoor world and the physical world that we live in. What, what do you think the digital world is taking from our kids or taking from families, I guess I should ask?

Dan & Dave Gray: (25:58)

Well, well, uh, I have, I have a phrase with my kids that I say, “Are we aimlessly scrolling?” Is it just aimless time that's not used, you know, other than to escape mm-hmm . And, uh, there, there is time for some of that. Um, but when it is all the time, and it starts to be, it starts to be, you know, a problem, they would rather do that than engage in a conversation with somebody they're in the same room with, uh, that that's, that's a problem. I think we're seeing basic communication skills, uh, being lost. And, you know, I mean, I can't imagine back in the day in high school asking, asking a, a girl to a dance on a text message and not going, and, you know, I mean, now, and we used to do creative things like they do nowadays with posters and things like that too. But if I wanted to go on a different, on a date with somebody, I'd make a phone call. My stomach was full of butterflies or, you know, I was anxious. And now it's just so easy to send a text and it's just so informal. Um, and so I think being able to zone out anytime a, a teenager wants to, by aimlessly scrolling, they miss out on, you know, real-time experiences, um, and opportunities to have to learn how to have conversations with people. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (27:14)

Yeah. I

Dan & Dave Gray: (27:15)

Just, a real funny, quick take off from that. I talked to a couple of young ladies after I gave a presentation, and they're seniors in high school, and I asked them, what would you do if a boy called you up and asked you out on the phone

Hillary Wilkinson: (27:30)

Mm-hmm .

Dan & Dave Gray: (27:30)

And the one girl said, without missing a stroke, I'd marry him on the spot. . That's funny because they don't do that. And these girls are hungry for some connection that way, although they contribute to it too with their time on the, on the internet or on their devices as well. From a professional, professional perspective, though, I, people come into me because they have developed habitual patterns and addictions related to their devices and their screen time. Mm-hmm . They can't seem to pull away. They become dependent upon it in order to manage boredom and loneliness and stress and depression and those emotions that then trigger them onto just spending time online because they don't have to risk being rejected by someone. They can just go online and get into that zone. And after then hours they find that they've then not taken time to connect with their family, do their homework, miss their work. It becomes then an addictive pattern that is very difficult to break.

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:41)

Yeah. What you've described right there is what we call at healthy screen habits, the cycle of vulnerability that just leads to that perpetuation of tech overuse because it's just digital distraction is not self-care.

Dan & Dave Gray: (28:56)

Right? It's that dopaminergic reaction. It it, that happens neurologically in our brains and we're, we're, you know, we're designed to like that experience mm-hmm . And so when it goes without limit and without boundaries, uh, I think our, our kids are really losing out on the opportunity to learn quality, good communication skills.

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:20)

Yeah. We have to take another short break, but when we come back, I'm gonna ask Dan and Dave for their healthy screen habit.

—-------------------------

Gabb Wireless

—-------------------------

I'm speaking with Dan and Dave Gray, the father-son co-founders of Bridge Camp. And now guys, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. This is going to be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own homes. What's yours?

Dan & Dave Gray: (30:04)

It's a great question. I love that you ask all of your guests this. Um, we're, we're, we have a slightly different take. Um, I think, you know, we talk so much about having limits and boundaries and all of that is super healthy. We need to have those discussions with our kids and with our teenagers. Um, but the fact of the matter is, screens are here to stay. Our kids are gonna be going through their teenage years, moving into adulthood, going through college, everything on their screens. So while we set up healthy boundaries and limits, I would suggest, we would suggest of finding ways, um, as a family to utilize screen time together to connect in healthy and positive ways, (embrace it) instead of always focusing on the negative aspects of screen time that seems to only require limitations and negative consequences. So examples of that could be, uh, deciding to do Duolingo, for example, and commit as a family to learn another language and get on that, you know, get on it together, challenge each other, um, have competitions together.

Dan & Dave Gray: (31:07)

Uh, maybe you could set up a five-minute discussion before dinnertime, have everybody go around and say, Hey, okay, what was everybody's experience with social media? What, what, what was a, a post you saw that impacted you? What was a negative post? Uh, what was a, you know, a fun post or something like that. And everybody goes around and discusses it. Um, and one other option might be to decide on a purpose and a messaging that you family would like to put out on a continual basis. Maybe it's a monthly basis, maybe it's a weekly basis. And together you do a short reel, record a video that you post out together and you all, you know, do it on your own individual accounts and share it. Share it and say, Hey, as a family we went and we did a service project and this is this, these were the results.

Dan & Dave Gray: (31:52)

Or, uh, we, at this week we talked as a family, the importance of acceptance. And um, you know, give an example that, uh, one of you had, uh, that week or something like that. And make it a family experience. So while the limits and boundaries are being put in place to help our kids also embrace the fact that it is part of our reality today and, um, and take the positive of it. 'cause there are positives to the digital experience that our kids are going through in their life. And, uh, and maybe engage in some of those different types of activities.

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:26)

I love it. You're keeping technology as the tool it was intended for. You're not letting it overtake the connection part. I love all of that, right? I know there are a few more, sessions of Bridge Camp that are coming this summer. Do you guys have dates for them? In case anybody's thinking, gosh, this is so amazing, I'd like to do it with my kid. Where do you have those dates?

Dan & Dave Gray: (33:16)

We do, yeah. Let, uh, let me give those to you. Um, we have a camp in Veyo, uh, that is on June 20th to the 22nd. And then we have, uh, a camp in July 11th through the 13th, August 1st through the third, and August 15th through the 17th at Camp Oakley. Okay. And just a reminder, we provide all the tents, the cots, all the food. Um, we really, uh, all you have to do is bring a sleeping bag and a pillow and uh, and, and we, we provide the rest and we have, we camp next to very nice restrooms and showers too. Yeah. Some, some might, some might, uh, classify it as a glamping experience. Um, yet we are, we are out there camping, but it's very, very accommodating. Uh, uh, you know, tents and, I mean, the, the tents are like eight-person tents and there's one family, you know, a parent-teen duo to one tent. Um, and we really try to make it a positive experience all around. So,

Hillary Wilkinson: (34:14)

Well, it sounds fantastic. I'm positive there are people listening that are like, “Oh, let, let's go check our calendar!” As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show and a link to BridgeCamp's website by visiting the show notes for this episode. You do that by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. Dan, Dave, thank you so much for, I just feel like you guys are following your calling. I feel like this is what you were meant to do is bring these outdoor adventures and making them accessible for families to establish greater connection. And thank you, thank you for doing that. 

Dan & Dave Gray: (34:57)

Thank you, Hillary. Thanks for having us. Thank you.