For More Info:

The Center for Parent and Teen Communication

https://parentandteen.com/

Amazon Link to book:
https://www.amazon.com/Lighthouse-Parenting-Raising-Guidance-Lifelong/dp/1610027191

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:16)

My guest today has focused his career on helping youth develop their own solutions to social problems and teaching adults how to better serve them. As a doctor of adolescent medicine at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and professor of Pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, he sees every day the challenges facing today's youth and parents. He's also the author of many books published by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the latest of which is Lighthouse Parenting, Raising Your Child with Loving Guidance for a Lifelong Bond. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (01:35)

It's an absolute joy to be with you today. Hillary, thank you.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:39)

Just so you know, he's given me permission to call him Ken. I don't want anybody to be under the illusion that I'm taking liberties with over familiarity here. So, that out the way, Ken, over the years, there have been so many terms thrown around when it comes to parenting styles. I mean, we've got helicopters and snowplows, we've got Tiger Moms, jellyfish, free range. All, all of these terms and techniques come from the same place. It's a parent who's trying to do their very best. And you are introducing a term that I think many people may not be familiar with, Lighthouse parenting. So, before we get into further discussion, let's just kind of break that apart. You have a really beautiful statement of commitment to lighthouse parenting at the start of your book. I didn't check with you beforehand. Do you have a copy of your book? Do you wanna read? Okay. , would you mind reading this statement so people can just kind of get a bead on the philosophy behind lighthouse parenting?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (02:48)

Absolutely. Hillary, thank you for asking. I choose to be a lighthouse parent. That's what you meant by commitment. This is a choice, a stable force on the shoreline from which my child can measure themself against. I'll send my signals in a way they will choose to trust. I'll look down at the rocks to be sure they don't crash against them. I'll look into the waves and trust, they'll learn to ride them, but I'm committed to prepare them to do so. Hillary, the next point might be the most important point in terms of this concept of a lifelong bond. I'll remain a source of light they can seek whenever they need a safe and secure return. And Hillary, before we dive in, I want to give good news to your listeners whose heads spin with the season every time there's a new parenting style. This is not a new parenting style, right?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (03:42)

I am a pediatrician. I run the Center for Parent and Teen Communication. What I put out there is information we know works. There is 60 years of research that tells us that it is the balancing act between loving our child and letting them know we love them, being responsive to their needs, honoring their development with the importance of also giving them boundaries and rules to follow. And high expectations. That it is this balancing act called balanced or authoritative parenting that we know creates the best academic outcomes. In other words, you do better in school, the best emotional outcomes, lower rates of depression and anxiety, the best behavioral outcomes, meaning less likely to get into trouble in a whole bunch of ways, ranging from substance use to romantic or sexual activity, to even, um, the safety around driving 60 years of research and common sense. This, you could ask your grandma what kids need, and 

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (04:59)

She would've said to you, um, what kids need is to know that they're loved and to know that they're watched and that you're gonna guide them, but let them make some mistakes. That's what she would've told you. So, lighthouse parenting is anything but new. Many of the other, uh, strategies you talked about are put out by well-meaning parents, but they're not rooted in our culture. They haven't withstood the test of time and certainly have not been proven by research. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:43)

As you and I were talking a little bit before we started recording Healthy Screen Habits, really the, our primary focus is on family relational health, health. And I think one of the reasons that your book resonated so hard with us is your first chapter right out the gate is focused on family stability. And can you talk about that?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (06:11)

Yeah, I'm actually super proud of that because, um, every parenting book, every blog on parenting always has the last chapter or the last line. And it says, “Oh, and by the way, take care of yourself.”  But let's listen to this commitment. A stable force on the shoreline from which my child can measure themselves against stability is about taking care of yourself first. It is about being the kind of person that your child can role model themselves with. But more than that, it's about being the kind of person that your child will come to in times of need. Not now, not tomorrow, but now, tomorrow, and in 30 years. And who do you go to? You don't go to a perfect parent. Perfect parents are intimidating. Not to mention they don't exist. Humans raise the best humans, Hillary the best humans. And when we show that the ground sometimes rock you beneath our feet, and we work really hard to maintain stability, that we take care of ourselves so we have the bandwidth and the room to take care of other people, that's where you start, not only because you deserve  to take care of yourself, but also because it's really a great strategy for parenting.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (07:33)

You. You wanna be there, not just when things are going well. You want to be there when things are not. And kids don't come to you if they're worried about you. They come to you when they know you're okay, or will, when they add something to your plate, take the steps to become ok.

Hillary Wilkinson: (07:50)

Mm. Okay. So a couple of things resonated there with me, which I know, um, families come in all shapes and sizes and we recognize that. And, but you're saying the, the family unit as a collective. Am I right or are you focusing on one parent? Are you focusing, when we're talking about family stability, what does that entail?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (08:19)

My life's work is about preparing adults to be the kind of people that children and adolescents deserve in their life. And it's about adults remaining deeply connected, available, showing up and showing what it means to be an adult. I do not define family. I have no right to define family, right? Mm-hmm . A family is a loving adult. Whether it's one person, two people, three people, an extended family, whether it's a chosen family, a foster family, I'm not going to define family. I am going to define the presence of a powerful adult.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:00)

Thank you. Thank you. I also, I just wanna circle back to what you pointed out was, um, that this loving, stable adult is not without mistakes and blunders. And I think this is such an interesting thing to explore when we know that more and more as AI enters the room, kids are going to AI chatbots to seek advice on things. So with the perception that these AI chatbots do have that perfection, so to speak, how can we talk to kids so that they recognize that our failings as humans are actually the things that are going to bring us together?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (10:09)

Bring us together? Yeah. That's a fascinating and a deep question, Hillary, and I want to thank you for asking it. And as I'm responding, I'm partially stalling 'cause it's so deep, I need to come up with an answer, right? . But here's the thing, Hillary, here's what I know. I know that computers will never replace us. And while a chat bot may be helpful, number one, um, as someone who's working with AI a bit right now for some strategies to support families, I can tell you that it needs to be taught and that it makes mistakes. That point I want make. Mm-hmm . And humans also will make mistakes. But the way to protect our children from the virtual world is to create a real world, right? And the real world is the eye-to-eye human connection, right? A chatbot will never know your child fully in all of their complexity.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (11:10)

The the most powerful thing about a loving adult in a child's life is that when you really know who that child is, all of their complexities, all the things that make you proud, the things that make your smile turn into laughter, right? All of these things and the things that make you want to pull your hair out, but you choose to love your child, that is the most protective thing in a young life. That someone who knows you fully and all of your complexity and in all of your goodness and your not so goodness yet ness in all of that chooses to love you. A chat bot will never give you that. And, and I'll tell you something, you know, let's, you know in my book, Congrats, You're Having a Teen. I spend an enormous amount of time refuting some myths. Myths that divide families myths and misperceptions that make it so people move apart from each other instead of embrace each other.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (12:09)

And let's start with the powerful myth that kids don't care what adults think and that kids don't like their parents. These are not true things, right? Um, uh, at, we know that adolescents wanna learn from their parents more than they wanna learn from anybody else. We know that they love adult guidance, and I'm not seeing chatbots replacing us. What's gonna make chatbots replace us is if the old, you know, verbiage of go ask your father when things got tough, becomes go ask the chatbot. Chatbot that's gonna replace us. But when we're willing to do the hard work, the struggle, which is inclusive of saying, I don't know yet, let's find out together, let's figure out what credible information is. The only thing I know is I love you. I'm standing by you and you're not gonna get through this alone. No chatbot's gonna do that.

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:12)

Okay? When we come back, let's get into some cell phone guidance practices and some more like tech-based type stuff. 

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Hillary Wilkinson:

I'm speaking with Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg, an adolescent health expert and founding director of the Center for Parent and Teen Communications. An organization that works to empower parents with the strategies and skillsets that will strengthen their family connections and position them to guide their teens to become their best selves. So this question of, can I get a phone seems to be coming earlier and earlier for most families, and healthy screen habit stance, I will be very transparent, is for parents to hold off on providing kids with an internet-connected device until after eighth grade. But then we often see when people are struggling to find like a disciplinary tool, we often see the phone becoming the tool of choice for consequences and discipline once it, once it enters this whole, you know, realm. So what is your advice around that?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (15:46)

So Hillary, you actually asked two questions. So let's divide them. The first is when to get the phone. And so the nice thing about your advice, saying wait till eighth grade, is that it's very concrete and it gives you a moment in time. And not surprisingly, I'm gonna make it more complicated than that because it's not about an age. It's about development, and it's about whether you've done the work to make it so your child can have a phone. 'Cause make no mistake about it, once you give your child a phone, their easiest form of communication will be with their fingertips, and eye-to-eye communication will become awkward. Their main source of advice will become the internet. They're, the internet is designed to draw you in and excite you and to not want you to get off. What that means is that you've gotta do the groundwork before the phone happens that I can look you in the eye and say, um, I'm the man for the job.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (16:50)

I can know that the best source of comfort is human connection. Um, I can share my feelings and thoughts without stigma because I know someone will always stand by me. This is the work you do. The problem is, it, it's not as neat as saying seventh grade, eighth grade, ninth grade. Mm-hmm But it's a process. It's a process. We begin so early, the whole point of Lighthouse Parenting this book, 'cause mostly I write in the teenage space, right? Congrats. You're Having A Teen,  Reaching Teens. My other things, this is about starting early. When is the right time to start a relationship with your child? So you don't have to fear adolescence. So you don't have to fear technology today. Today is the right time. And if you're listening to me as a child, mother of a 2-year-old, um, today as a father of a five-year-old today, right?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (17:44)

Because relationships matter. Now, let me answer your second question, and that is about discipline. Let's remember adolescent development, and let's look at a couple of key points. Number one, um, the word discipline means to teach or to guide. It does not mean to punish or to control. And when it comes off as punishment or controlling, it backfires particularly with an adolescent, because an adolescent is trying to, um, uh, learn to spread their wings, to gain independence. And anything that feels like control, they will naturally, their brains, their emotions will guide them to rebel against it. So that's point 1. If a consequence feels worse than a crime, it feels like punishment. If freedom and independence is taken away, it feels like control punishment and control backfire. But do you need consequences in life? Golly, you sure do.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (19:00)

How else are you gonna learn? Discipline should not be when your kid is doing wrong, something wrong. It should be an everyday thing because teaching is an everyday thing. Now, let's get specific, when should the phone be used as a consequence? When a child will be able to look and see the connection between their action and the phone, and see that you are using it as guidance to protect them from an action. So if they're not sleeping, if they're not focusing, if they're not doing their homework, if they're doing something inappropriate on the phone, if they're not making time to live life and to connect with real people, the consequence of either taking away the phone or limiting the phone makes a lot of sense. If they are 15 minutes late and you got crazed in your own mind because you were having catastrophic thinking and you were imagining the worst thing could happen, and then your child comes in, in 15 minutes late thinking that's not really a big deal, and then you take away their lifeline to the rest of the world, which is their phone, they will feel controlled, they will feel punished, and it will make no sense.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (20:18)

So the phone is the only method of discipline is unwise. Mm-hmm . The phone as a method of consequence that is related to either the phone or not being able to have the human connection you're supposed to have. Makes sense.

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:37)

Staying within this lane of adolescence, one of the superpowers of adolescents is it's this period of super learning. My concern arises about a couple of things here that may seem to be in conflict with one another, but this is the reason why I wanted to talk to you about it. And one is this idea that a digital devices are experience blockers, right? They're soaking up so much of the time, it's taking away the time that kids can be exploring in their own, you know, wanting to find out who they are as a self. So the other thing that, so, so this is where I'm saying they may be in conflict with, it sounds like they're in conflict with one another. So there's the idea that di digital devices are experience blockers, but there's also the role that technology is having in exposing kids to too much too soon. So when we are talking with adolescents, how do we balance these things?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (21:52)

Yeah. So I don't really think that these things are in opposition with each other. I think that this is a really complicated question and that both things are true. Right? Okay. There's a third thing that's true that you didn't mention. So the first is that they're experience blockers. Um, the second is that they're exposing kids to things too soon. Um, let me add, and some of those things are incorrect and designed to draw them in with misinformation or to engage them. Um, but the third thing is that they're also experience creators. Mm-hmm . And to come up with the right balancing act, we have to acknowledge all three, right? Which is why human supervision matters so much. It means that if you understand that it's gonna expose to things kids too soon, you want to prepare them for those exposures. You want to prepare them with all the information.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (22:44)

You need to have human connection before those exposures. You want to help them understand what credible information looks like and what misinformation looks like. Kids have to understand the algorithms, right? We're living in a world that is putting us into different camps mm-hmm . Where our realities are entirely different. And that means that our kids might lose the most important things we humans have, which is to understand how to create bridges between people who are different and to gain input from people who are different. And if the algorithms separate us into different camps, this has much bigger implications than how your child is doing in eighth grade. It has to do with societal implications. And we have to prepare our children for both the beauty of the internet, which is understanding other people's perspectives and the wide variety of things you'd never get exposed to in your backyard.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (23:45)

What a blessing and the dangers of the internet by seeing only and having only reinforced your own view and what is maybe an intentional, but certainly a reality that it can radicalize you and put you into your own bubble. And we have to look at all of this at the same time, which is why this is so complicated, which is why I'm a terrible podcast guest because, you know, you have a podcast and you want me to go do this, but this is so complicated , and, and it's like why I write books. So you can really think this through because it is that complicated and it's that important

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:31)

And that admission right there means that you're not a terrible podcast guest. .

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:38)

Okay? And that also is a beautiful segue into my next question, which, you know, this again, we're focusing on this adolescent period, which is this intense time of growth. And I think when we talk about growth, we have this bias and tendency to celebrate forward move movement and achievements. Some argue that we celebrate too much, but I think what we often forget is that the path of growth is not always an upward trajectory. There's a lot of missteps and stumbles that come with authentic growth, and this includes technology. So when we find out that our kid has texted something inappropriate or engaged in an online platform that we don't endorse as a family, what do you recommend we do? How do we deal with failures?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (25:37)

Um, so once again, there's two threads here. The first is how do we deal with failures in general? And yes, growth is not in one direction. Um, how do we actually, if you're pruning a tree, what do you do? You actually know that you will create a stronger root system and stronger shoots by pruning away those things that aren't going so well. So let's be clear. Mistakes are not just backward movement. Mistakes are opportunities to grow even stronger, right? If we become afraid of the B plus, right? Because, and we consider a b plus a failure, how are we gonna come up with the most innovative solutions in the world? We stretch, we take chances, we fail, we recover, and it's in the chances that our greatest successes often live. So that's half your answer. All right. Um, now let's get back to a terrible mistake like texting.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (26:48)

Um, if something were sexting, something like that is, um, already something that is devastating to your child. Um, they remember that adolescent development is three questions. Who am I, am my normal, and do I fit in? And for that kid, he is probably already suffering the consequences of shame and stigma, being teased, being bullied because of the action. Let's just consider that as a possibility, which means that what is important is that they understand losing you is not a possibility, and you are, um, upset about the behavior, but never stop loving the child. That is what your child needs right? Now, when they have made a serious mistake, then they need to learn how to correct that mistake in real time. What does an authentic apology look like? So often we think that an apology looks like, I'm sorry. Nope. It's not action oriented enough.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (27:52)

An apology has three steps. I'm sorry, step one, step two. I know the harm that I have created. I am aware and reflective about this. And step three, this is the amends I will make to you or the strategies I will use moving forward. This is an opportunity. Whatever the mistake is, you, you used a texting mistake, a going on the wrong platform mistake, whatever the mistake is when it involves another human being. I'm sorry, I know the pain I've created, and this is the amends that I'm going to make. Now in the spirit of me always making things more complicated, let's, let's now bring up a third point here. Um, which is what we need to do as a society. Um, we need as a society to rehumanize people. And just because someone is on the other end of a text or a platform does not mean they aren't real humans with real tears who have real anxieties and this cruelty of modern day trolling mm-hmm .

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (29:13)

This moral debasement of us being able to shame people and think it's funny in, in the goal of getting more likes or l lo ls is a disgrace and it is going to destroy us if we're going to live in a world that includes technology, we must never forget the humans on the other side of technology. And that is yet another reason to delay your child getting into this technology because these kind of values are things we teach in our homes with real people by exposing them to real pain, real joy, real gratitude, and real strengths of character. Because that is what protects your child in the digital world.

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:09)

We have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg for his healthy screen habit. I, you could make me cry , like I, I, yeah, yeah. I, I could not agree with you more.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (30:25)

debate of my existence is I write books and I have to exist in a social media world where people want, and I do it. That's what's center for parenting Teen, teen communication is I know how to do it. But when you're asking questions this nuanced, I think it's worth this level of reflection.

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:43)

Oh, I, I could not agree with you more, but you have an ability to, um, in the business world that we're call like executive presence, you know, you have an ability to take these very, uh, nebulous ideas and boil them down to very concise communications. It's something I struggle with a lot, and I really am admiring your ability to do it. But I think that you just, you have this, this way to really cut to the quick of, um, the human condition. And I think it's, it's really beautiful. Really beautiful.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (31:23)

Golly. Thank you so much. And will you just do me a favor, now that you've just given me this big compliment, remind me what the pearl is. And the pearl is that it's not really that it's about, yeah. It's about the relationship you have outside of media.

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:35)

Yes. Right. Okay. You, you have said, my healthy screen habit has little to do with screens. It's making to sure that you have plenty of eye to eye real conversations with your child. If you do that, you'll have much less to worry about from screens. Yeah. Have you read Richard Free's new book? It's, um, oh gosh, now I'm blanking on it. It's, it's very, very analogous to you with the Yeah, I have eye to eye. Okay.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (32:02)

Can, can I also make the point about can I make two points, which is they need to keep themselves off the screen as well, because that what's making kids suffer Yeah. Is also not as accessible. Okay.

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:13)

Yeah, for sure. Okay. I'm just gonna, um, I'm just gonna bring us in real quick and then get right to it. Okay. 

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Ad Break - HSH Presentations (parent nights)

I am speaking with Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg, who has written this fabulous new book on parenting called Lighthouse Parenting: Raising Your Child with Loving Guidance for a Lifelong Bond. Ken, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. And this is gonna be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. What's yours?

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (32:45)

Yeah. I don't think anybody who's listened to this podcast is gonna be surprised by what I'm gonna say, which is that the healthiest screen habit I could offer is nothing to do with screens at all. It's about our human relationships. It's about what we do when our children are not on the screen. It's about that eye to eye contact, that deep emotional connection, and really that presence, right, that presence that we have that says, you're not in this alone. You belong. And let's go with that word presence. It's not just about your kids keeping their eyes off the screen and on you. It is also about you. What kids are telling me is everyone's complaining about what I do to the phone, but when we have dinner, my parent doesn't look up. Mm-hmm . Presence. That's what our kids need.

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:53)

Excellent. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show, as well as a link to the Center for Parenting Communication and a purchase link for the book, that can be your next read, Lighthouse Parenting. Find all of this by visiting the show notes for this episode. You do that by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. 

Ken, thank you so much for being here today for translating what can potentially be a very tricky time in child development and providing families with a path forward to establish these lifelong bonds, which as it turns out, is really all that matters.

Dr. Kenneth Ginsberg: (34:37)

Amen. What a joy and what a pleasure it was to be with you.