S2 Episode 4: A Girl’s Journey Through Porn Addiction // Ashlee Ayre

“Coloring apps... there was a lot of porn on there... super weird.”

-Ashlee Ayre

Healthy Screen Habit Takeaway

Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson (01:24):

So when I talk to parents about pornography, the conversation typically is incredibly gender biased, and that is the parents of boys immediately lean forward with full attention and concern. While often there are parents of girls who kind of like take a deep breath, relax, maybe even go to the bathroom. And that's why I invited my guest here today. Her name is Ashley Ayre and Ashley is this incredibly brave young woman who struggled for six years with pornography and its effects. And today she's here to tell us her pathway through pornography plus what she has learned. So parents buckle up what you're about to hear might be kind of hard to listen to, but it will be so worth it. Welcome to the Healthy Screen Habits Podcast, my brave friend, Ashley Ayre.

Ashlee Ayre (02:36):

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Hillary Wilkinson (02:38):

Ashley, one of the things that immediately caught my attention about your story, besides just being a female perspective to porn is that it could be out of the pages of literally anyone's handbook. And I mean, can you give us a brief rundown on kind of how it all went down for you? Like, including, if you can remember the age you were given, uh, given access to porn and what are the, what age you entered the realm of social media, so to speak?

Ashlee Ayre (03:11):

Yeah. So, um, my parents had the birds and bees talk with me that was around age 11 and we were, we had such a great childhood and just everything was, I don't know, you could call it the perfect storm. Um, we moved far away and we were homeschooled our whole lives. Um, but we went right into school and, um, I was given a phone at age 11. Um, a lot of the reason was because I was, I had the label of the perfect child on me, um, growing up. And so that was really hard to, you know, keep up and make sure that no one knew that I messed up, which is ridiculous, but so pretty much because I had that label on me, my, my dad didn't really have to think about giving me a phone, he just handed it over.

Hillary Wilkinson (05:21):

I'm so interested to hear more, but first we need to take a little break.

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Hillary Wilkinson (05:40):

I'm speaking with Ashley Ayre, a young adult who's passionate about sharing her journey through the pathways of bad habits with pornography and what that led to. So Ashley, before the break, we were talking about the age you got on social media and can you share like a few of the apps that were most problematic with porn exposure to you?

Ashlee Ayre (06:04):

Um, the number one, one was definitely Instagram and probably number two was Snapchat. Um, YouTube was a huge one. And then there was this other, some, there was some weird ones like Pinterest and um, some of like…

Hillary Wilkinson (06:22):

I, uh, I hear Pinterest and I think like craft projects. So I'm like Pinterest, what? I had no idea. I, and here I feel like I should know this, but I had no idea there was porn on Pinterest.

Ashlee Ayre (06:42):

Yeah. Well it is just pictures on Pinterest. So it kind of makes sense. 

Hillary Wilkinson (06:47):

Yeah, so I guess it's just that, that sort of thing where it's like, um, anything that has that user generated content that drives social media is anytime you've got user generated content, you have to know that the users are going to generate content that you don't necessarily need all kids to be seeing.

Ashlee Ayre (07:08):

And I do want to add one more. So parents can be aware, um, coloring apps. That was a huge one for me, which is super weird. Just like pretty much anything can be dangerous. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (07:21):

So coloring  like, would that expose you to, was that, were those pictures or were they videos or?

Ashlee Ayre (07:30):

They were pictures. So, so it was a big coloring app where anyone can add like pictures and then they would just like color it. So you could find other accounts that have uploaded pictures that you can color. And there was a lot of porn on there. So super weird. Yeah. It brings like,

Hillary Wilkinson (07:48):

I'm sorry for laughing, but I, you know, we have all these adult coloring books and it's like, you know, I didn't know it was that kind of adult coloring. Okay. Okay. So I think it's really important that, uh, parents recognize generally speaking the size of the screen is kind of directly related to the exposure and the consumption of porn. That is the smaller, the screen, the greater, the exposure, a desktop screen is more limiting than a laptop. And that is going to be more limiting than a handheld device, which has to do with both the conceal-ability and the accessibility. It totally makes sense when you think about it, but I just think a lot of people don't take that step. And did you find that to be true in your own life?

Ashlee Ayre (08:38):

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's so much easier to hide it. You know, you just clear the tab you put in your pocket and, you know, it's just different, you, you know, you can have it with you, you can take it to the bathroom, but you can't really with a computer.

Hillary Wilkinson (08:57):

So I know a lot of folks who have big concerns about like, how will my child ever have friends if they don't have a social media account?  I mean, that's kind of the pushback that I've even gotten in my own circle. We don't give our children phones at this house. Now we use, um, non-internet connective type phones, you know? We wait until the summer between eighth and ninth grade.  Uh, what would you say to parents who have that concern?

Ashlee Ayre (09:44):

Um, it is a really big concern. I see that everywhere. Um, I just want to bring everyone's attention to:  back when you guys were kids, like no one had phones and that wasn't really an issue. You know, everyone just hung out in person. And I do want to mention that, yes, it may be easier to, you know, stay in contact with your friends, you know, just send them to snap or whatever, but really the, the real friendships that you want isn't from sending snaps, you know, like that was a big thing was when I had Snapchat, it's not like I can just, I don't know. Maybe I had a hundred friends, but it's not like I would want to genuinely hang out with one of them really, you know, they weren't like close friends. And so I just think that a lot of friendships when it's only, I don't know, based from having a phone, everyone just wants to fit in, but they're not really real friendships. And, um, I think that that's kind of harder to parents think that that's the only way, you know, that's kind of offensive to the kids. If you know, here's a phone, now you can have friends. So, you know, kids should be getting out and making real friendships going out at night, playing games. You know, it's just so different. I think that a lot of parents and kids need to talk about that and yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (11:08):

Yeah. I think you're so smart too, to bring that up. It's like, if we have that conversation with our kids about, you know, this is, this is not the only way to have friends, maybe even sit down and define, like, what, what does, like, how does a friend make you feel, what do you do with friends and all of these things, and then kind of circle it around too. And how, how does having, another, another, like on social media fit into all of that? Or how does yeah. Like a definition of true friendship. Yeah. That's really, really insightful. So, um, there's also kind of this big, you know, around porn of course, because of the content, there's this super uncomfortable, like, whoa, how do we talk about it to our kids? And I, I often tell people there's appropriate ages and stages conversations.

Hillary Wilkinson (12:09):

There's, uh, you know, along that. But some people feel like, oh, well I've missed the boat. My, you know, um, my son is 15 or, uh, you know, I mean, or they're, or they put on the blinders. I don't want to know. Do you have any recommendations of how parents can bring up their concerns to their kids without like, uh, getting a pushback as far as curiosity, and the exploration aspect as well as, like, how would you recommend parents bring up their concerns to their kids?

Ashlee Ayre (12:53):

Um, yeah. What you just said, where that person was concerned that they were too late. Um, I don't think that's true, you know, like the kids are going to find that anyways, and you might as well be the one to teach it to them. If you are too late and they've already, got involved in pornography or have been learning from friends, you know, it's still not too late. And I think that that would be very important. They can just start having, like side-by-side conversations, you know, maybe like really casual in the car, um, just bring that up very carefully and, you know, and not, um, not bring shame into it and really just start seeing where their kids are, seeing where their kids are at, what they're thinking about this and letting them talk, um, letting your kid talk. And I feel like if we can get this more like a normal, not saying it has to be like a really normal conversation, but like, um, more frequent. And so the kid can come to you when they have questions, which they will, and just having it be a safe relationship. I think that's so important for parents to do.

Hillary Wilkinson (14:14):

I agree with you on the relationship, because no matter how many filters, how many monitoring services, et cetera, you install, honestly, it is, it's that relationship and connection that's going to be your best tool. So can you, um, pinpoint what may have been some things that were, or continue to be the biggest contributors to helping you sort of like gain your peace or a sense of getting your life back to a place where you're comfortable now? I'm I don't, I don't know. Like, was there a point at which you hit that sort of your rock bottom, so to speak? Or like how, how did that all go for you?

Ashlee Ayre (14:57):

So, yeah, I think I was about 16. Um, I, I was just with my, my best friend and we just somehow brought on that topic and I just blurted it out. It was just finally a safe moment where I felt like I could open up and it was amazing. I decided I would get help like the next week. And I reached out to, um, a trusted adult and we started, yeah, I started making changes and I decided that I was done with pornography. I took that part out of my life and replaced it with so many other different things; like service. And I actually took a long break from social media. I removed that off my phone. I, you know, I did so many different things to, um, really just changed my whole life around and get into a better place.

Hillary Wilkinson (15:59):

So what motivated you to do that? I mean, at 16 that's a pretty, I mean, that's a pretty big move. So you had this conversation with your friend, which, I mean, kudos to you for having such a good friend that you could discuss something as tricky as that, but like what, what brought you to that point of recognizing I of wanting the change, I guess I'm asking.

Ashlee Ayre (16:28):

Um, so, so really when I first started, started doing pornography, you know, it was all just kind of fun, but then after a while, it's just so exhausting. It's so exhausting hiding it and seeing how it's really affecting your life. And that you're just, it really, you can just see it destroying your life in front of you. And I really did want to change. I think my heart was softened for a while. Um, I was already getting ready to like slip notes to my mom cause I was too scared to bring that up. And so I think I was just in a position. I don't know if that is very common for a lot of teenagers, but I just really did want to make a change..

Hillary Wilkinson (17:10):

Uh huh Uh huh. And when you, um, approached your parents, were they supportive or how did that all go?

Ashlee Ayre (17:17):

Okay. So I actually didn't tell them for like, I think I told them last year, which was like two years after I, um, got over the pornography. So I talked to a religious leader, so I never really told my parents, but when I did, they were very kind. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (17:41):

Yeah. Well, I mean you speak of coming from this very family based background where you had these supportive parents. I'm ju I was just wondering how that, how that went. So it's, it's nice to hear that they supported you in your journey, but I, I, yeah. I understand why it's scary to have to admit things.

Ashlee Ayre (18:06):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hillary WIlkinson (00:00):

What is it that you wish parents knew? What is the one thing that you wish even your parents knew at the time of when you were kind of going through all of this?

Ashlee Ayre (00:35):

Um, there's so many ways I could take this, but I feel like it's such an important thing because you know, you look at me and you see such a good girl. And so many people have seen that too. And, um, something that just keeps coming to my mind is that that parents are trusting their kids too much. Um, with, you know, it's not like they can't trust me. It's more like they can't trust the phone. And I wish that they would have been more aware of that. Um, and like, my mom had so many gut feelings, like a long, the whole way of me having a phone. She had so many gut feelings that something wasn't right. Um, I was spending way too much time in my room at night. You know, also I had my phone in my room, which is a big no-no.

Hillary WIlkinson (01:24):

Yeah, but that's one of those things we know that now, you know, I feel like, I feel like Ashley it hurts my heart a little. When you say, oh, you look at me and you see a good girl, you are a good person. You, you know, I mean, it's, you were given a tool that, I mean, you were drinking from a fire hose when you didn't even necessarily want a sip of water. So it's, I mean, I think that's, I mean, the, the devices, the apps, nothing was designed to protect you from that. That's what, so like all of that, like shame or anything that, I mean, I just, I hope, I hope in the like depths of my heart, that you can come to peace with that because it's, it was not designed. We failed you. I mean, the, the designers, the developers, I mean, WE failed YOU. So this is why I work so hard to build awareness so that others don't have to have a path of pain.

Ashlee Ayre (02:39):

Yeah. And you reminded me of something, um, like what you're saying about apps and stuff. Like my parents did all of that. You know, they had the screen time, they had all the, the apps that would lock down my phone or, um, not let me get apps. You know, they did all the protection, I guess, but that really doesn't help very much, you know, kids can just get around that so easily. Oh. And, and like, so this is another thing, is that even when they do put on those apps, it doesn't like filter through Instagram, you know, like you open up Instagram, all of it comes with it, right. When you

Hillary WIlkinson (03:24):

When you say, when they put on the apps, you mean when they, when they, when they put on the, the layers of, um, parental control is what we're looking for. Yeah, exactly. My brain is moving in slow motion today, but yeah, it's the, when you put in the parental controls, social media is designed to not be affected by parental controls. And that is not made explicit anywhere. So it's not the default on all things technology is never to safety and we're having a massive course correction. Hopefully culturally. Yeah. And I, I hope, I mean, and I think that the numbers speak for themselves - you know, the mental health crisis that we're in the levels of suicide that we see families affected by.

Ashlee Ayre (04:37):

 I was super young, so 11 and I didn't even know that this was really a thing. Like they didn't understand it really. I don't really remember if the sex talk was before or after, but just, I, I just remembered being so curious about it. And so I would do what I could, we didn't really watch movies. We don't really spend time on the computer really nothing. So, you know, of course I go to my library in our house. And so, you know, I pull up the dictionaries and I'm like, dang, I'm like, what can I do to get this? Cause this is so interesting. Yeah. So I was very curious and I was smart. I did whatever to get there.

Hillary WIlkinson (06:17):

Yeah. And I mean, and if, I mean, every, you use the resources that you have to find out what you need to know, which for most kids, living during this period of time is going to be the internet,

Hillary WIlkinson (06:32):

Which is not the safest place to go looking for answers. I would not, I would not give my, you know, a sex education talk by dropping my child off in the middle of Hollywood Boulevard saying, "Oh, go have a look around."

Ashlee Ayre (06:53):

When I did make that big change and I started, um, changing my life around, um, that wasn't just a one and done thing, you know, it wasn't like I was able to just cold turkey, everything. It's been a really long journey. And, um, some big things that I've been doing are group therapy, which is amazing, you know, having that support with women that are actually struggling with pornography as well. And, um, just really finding deeper connection with people around me, like my mom, she was amazing. And, um, when I, when I actually did reach out to her and tell her that I was struggling, and that, that was a big thing in the past, and it's still is here a little bit. She was amazing. And went on, runs with me every day and we would talk. And, um, just so just finding different ways to connect with people, um, has been a huge game changer. And since I have been, um, more on the done side of that, like I'm not so stuck in the addiction. Um, I have been able to speak on podcasts and that has been amazing for my recovery as well. So that is pretty much where I am today. And I'm just, I just wish that every parent would know, um, that, so that the kids don't have to go through it really, it's really hard and scary as a kid and especially as a girl, I should say. 

Hillary WIlkinson (10:32):

Right. But it sounds like that connection is the key, you know, that connection and the relationships. Yeah. So Ashley, on every episode of the healthy screen habits podcast, I ask a guest for a healthy screen habit that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one?

Ashlee Ayre (10:53):

I do. Yeah. So as you can tell from my episode, I am really big about connection. I'm really big about taking breaks from social media. Um, so my screen habit would be, um, maybe every month take off the addicting apps off of your phone. And I'm talking to the parents, um, do this with your child. And so encourage them do it with them and just take a break from for one day to do a week, however long you want and to see how many fun things you can do together, you know, projects think accomplished and just pay attention to how you feel when you take Snapchat off your phone or Instagram, or, you know, the games and

Hillary WIlkinson (11:34):

Talk about it like, right. I mean, it's one thing for you to kind of have that mental inventory, but it's that whole living out loud thing that builds that connection. That's what you talked about was the important part.

Ashlee Ayre (11:51):

That would help with the connection, the family. It's super important to disconnect from the constant use of screens...

Hillary WIlkinson (12:01):

Disconnect to reconnect.

Ashlee Ayre (12:04):

Yeah. Love that.

Hillary WIlkinson (12:06):

Ashley, if our listeners want to reach out to you or get more information, I will link your information in the show notes of this episode, which can be found on healthy screen habits under the podcast section. I can't thank you enough. This has just been like delightful talking to you and I wish you truly nothing but continued health and success in your journey. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you for being here.