S2 Episode 6: Finding the Good In Social Media // Shawn Nelson & Ivy Staker

"Social media is storytelling… it’s like the scrapbooking that we used to do in the 80’s.”

- Shawn Nelson

"When I found a community on Instagram of folks sharing sentiments that I had only ever thought… I had this clear example of someone who had gotten to the other side, it gave me so much hope."

- Ivy Staker

Healthy Screen Habit Takeaway

Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson (00:00):

So often when we talk about social media, it gets cast in a negative light. We hear about FOMO, doxing and cyber bullying. And it can seem as though social media serves no positive purpose many political commentators have stated that Facebook may have as much power as some with roughly 2.89 billion, monthly active users, and a global penetration rate of 35.6%. Facebook is the most popular social network worldwide. So what's right about social media? It kind of got me thinking: Clearly it's working for a lot of us and some are using this platform for a lot of good. Today we're going to chat with people who managed to crack this code. They've found healthy ways to wrangle this social networking tool and use it for supporting causes and strengthening their own mental health and generate income.

Hillary Wilkinson (01:14):

The first person who immediately came to my mind when I was considering today's episode is Shawn Nelson. She's kind of a local hero. Shawn Nelson is a 46 year old mom that has a passion for social media. Not only has she built a full-time income on it, she found her biological grandfather. She also uses it to help educate on Type one diabetes and provide support to families. Sean's feeds are packed with positive messages, real life stories of what it's like to raise three teens, two of whom are twin boys. What I love most is that Shawn keeps it real. And what I love even more is that this powerhouse lady has risen to success as a mom influencer sharing her business, empowering women and teaching all of us some great self-care tips along the way. Welcome to the Healthy Screen Habits podcast. Shawn Nelson!

Shawn Nelson (02:16):

Thanks for having me -  that intro girl! I love it! Thank you!

Hillary Wilkinson (02:22):

Well, we love you in this town. So Shawn- you have built a full-time income based around your outreach with social media. What is your favorite part about the work that you do?

Shawn Nelson (02:47):

Community. Honestly community. The income that I have a built on social media, you know, social media always gets such negative connotations attached to it. But what I have found is that there are many people that have lost their light within our world, not to sound dramatic and they come to social media to get reconnected again

Hillary Wilkinson (03:17):

Is there something you wish that people understood about social media rather than, you know, we hear so much of the negative all of the time and I feel like you are somebody who has this ability to flip it and turn it towards a more positive light.

Shawn Nelson (03:53):

Right? Right. Well, so the, the age old statement about social media is that everybody comes there to share their highlight reel. And that seems to be something that people tend to look down upon. But in my personal opinion: Why is that bad? Why is that bad that somebody wants to come to social to tell a story? Social media is storytelling. And it's like, it's like scrapbooking that we used to do in the eighties. You know, you would never put pictures of your dog pooping on the carpet or your kid throwing a temper tantrum or your flat tire picture in your scrapbook. So why would you put that in your digital scrapbook on social? And so I think a lot of times, um, our society inherently is attracted to train wrecks. That's why reality TV is so popular. That's why the news gets a lot of, a lot of, you know, hype around it.

Shawn Nelson (04:50):

There's not a lot of times that people tend to look at a situation and lift up the positive and promote the positive. But for me, social media, not only with, you know, the income that I earn on social media, but bigger than that is that the outreach that I do for women and also with my son's diagnosis, social media was 100% a life saver for me in that realm. I think it's time for us to start looking at what the highlight reel is and that the highlight reel might not be the problem. It's people's reaction to the highlight reel. 

Hillary Wilkinson (05:21):

Okay. So it's almost like the public needs to flip their script

Shawn Nelson (05:27):

Stop giving attention to, um, to just the negative, because there are so many influencers out there in social media and I'm not talking about stereotypical social media influence, just people in communities that tend to have, um, just a light about them and people are drawn to them. Why, why, why, why do we give attention to, to the negative and the dark and the, and the dreary? Why don't we give attention to the people that feel like sunshine? That is, that is where our energy should be going.

Hillary Wilkinson (05:57):

Yeah, you're absolutely right

I always love exploring, uh, the neurobiology of why we think, how we think, and you know, I've read that negative comments in our brain. We, we all come with this negative bias set, which is because, you know, if you were out eating two different kinds of berries, you needed to really, really remember the one that made you sick. You know? So, so in life, as we move through life, the negative has a tendency to stick like Velcro and the positive has a tendency to just bounce like Teflon. So we almost need like five times the positive to counteract one of the negatives.

Shawn Nelson (06:47):

And it's a choice we need to make everyday. To have a growth mindset actually takes physical choice every single day. It's like a muscle we are building like going to the gym, but it's work. And a lot of people don't go that route because it's easier. It's easier for us to look at things on social or things in our life. And it makes us feel better when somebody else is struggling. It makes us feel better about our own situations.

Hillary Wilkinson (07:30):

It makes us feel better for the short term, but the collective part of that is that it actually depresses our mindset. Absolutely. Your  talk about it being a choice reminds me of Episode 2. I talked to Jennifer Joy Madden about How To Be a Durable Human, and it's really good. It's season 2, episode 2 And she talks about  building that durability.  So you have, you did not come, I mean, you and I are roughly around the same age and, um, we clearly did not grow up, you know, with this mindset of becoming an influencer, you had a different professional background. And because of that, I think it's just fascinating: your career track. Can you kind of take us through that a little bit?

Shawn Nelson (08:34):

Absolutely. So I was a registered nurse for 13 years and I just had this desire and this pull, my entire life to tell stories, that is, it was always elaborate and colorful and glittery. And that has been me since childhood. And then chose a path in medicine and absolutely loved it. But about six years ago, son was diagnosed with Type1 diabetes and in elementary school at the time. So I had to be at the school for insulin injections and, you know, carb ratio counting and all of the stuff that goes along with that life that I found myself finding a blessing in my career in medicine, but not finding the flexibility. So falling into the social media world was just, um, more of a very fluid transition for me because I was comfortable sharing my story. But then I had this deep passion really too, um, I'm a fighter for the underdog and I'm a fighter for, um, for positivity and for people changing their lives. And so it was, it was a simple transition as far as my mindset goes, but it was not as simple a transition as far as my age demographic goes and hopping into this world. That was, I feel made for the younger generation. Initially it was, I'm going to fumble through it and figure it out.

Hillary Wilkinson (10:01):

 So can you talk about, like one of the things that I really enjoy on your social media feeds are this sort of like educational component that you talked about just briefly on type one diabetes and how, like, how has that helped you connect with other families?

Shawn Nelson (10:20):

Absolutely. So when my son was diagnosed, um, social media was a savior for me because with diabetes in general, um, it's a very generalized term that I had learned in nursing school and Type 1 diabetes and Type 2 diabetes really should be named two completely different names. They are two different diseases, but I think a lot of times with families of Type 1, we get lumped into the diabetes umbrella in general. And there's a lot of stigma that comes attached to that. There shouldn't be with Type 2 either, but it just becomes kind of the butt of many jokes, you know, butt of many memes, so what social media has done it has allowed me to reach beyond my general reach of the community that we live in and really educate people of what it is and what the real face of it looks like and what families are going through.

Hillary Wilkinson (11:49):

 One of the, um, massive educational components from your story and from your son's story is I had no idea that diabetic alert dogs existed and your son's diabetic alert dog happens to be a black Labrador. Who's roughly the same age as mine. So of course I'm immediately drawn toward any picture of, I will use his name, Marty, and I just, I cannot tell you how much I have educated other people about whatever amazing thing Marty has done.

Hillary Wilkinson (12:35):

So, Shawn, every episode I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit, which is a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. And as somebody who has seemingly cracked the code on social media, I'm hoping that you might have one that you can share with us today?

Shawn Nelson (12:55):

Absolutely. My mission and my platform is always around positivity. And I think a lot of people are scared to share their highlight reel on social, but by doing that, you give permission to other people to share their light as well. So when you're telling your story on social, not only doing it in a safe and productive way and taking breaks and all of the things that we try to put into practice every single day, but also continue to tell your story because you might share a hardship, but then your triumph over it, if you have the courage to share your story, share your light, share your outcome, share your triumph on social media. You never know who is a wallflower sitting behind their computer or sitting behind their phone and is hesitant to take that next step. You just might give them permission to do the same.

Hillary Wilkinson (13:55):

I like how often you will share the challenges that maybe you've been through say in the night, whether it was a diabetic scare or you do talk about the trolls on social media. I mean, you recently, you just shared how you had done a post for your business and it got some, you know, unkind, unnecessary comments. And because you did a follow up post on it, I went back and looked at what it was. And I love your comments to it also, which I'm going to say, this is like, I think this is a Healthy Screen Habit is your comment to people who were saying hurtful and hateful things was "move along". You were like, you were like, "Thanks for sharing, move along". And I was like that. There's so much to learn just from handling that like grace and dignity and just keep rolling.

Shawn Nelson (14:55):

Grace is huge. You know, I have really learned to realize over my eight years of my own personal businesses, that hurt people, hurt people. And so that is not a reflection of the original poster. It's not a reflection of the situation. It's a reflection of that person really, and how hurt they really are. And so I just try to give as much grace to those kinds of people every day.

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Hillary Wilkinson:

Last year, a friend forwarded me an article titled "Why I Unfollowed My Real Friends on Instagram". I, of course, was immediately intrigued and kept reading. I wanted to know more. So I tracked down my guest today who's the author of that article. And we're going to talk about her follow up statement of : "With a little intention. You can make Instagram a tool that supports your mental health." Ivy Staker, is a social anthropologist and an eating disorder survivor who is fascinated by how we shape culture and how culture shapes us.Welcome to the healthy screen habits podcast, Ivy Staker.

Ivy Staker  (01:08:

Thanks so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Hillary Wilkinson (01:11):

Yay. So your path to social media balance is kind of an interesting one in your article that led me to you. "Why I've unfollowed my real friends on Instagram", you quote Theodore Roosevelt in saying, "Comparison is the thief of joy" and state that this may as well have been the battle cry of your twenties. So I have so many questions. What role did social media play in this kind of thievery for you?

Ivy Staker  (01:53):

I think it's something I grapple with because I see in my work and as an anthropologist and in community development, I see really great things happening in terms of connections that are happening over social media and community building, um, and ways that it can combat loneliness. And then on the other side of the coin is the ways that it can exacerbate loneliness and comparison, um, and disconnection. And I don't know that there is a clear answer. Um, I think it comes down, at least in my own life. It's come down to how I use it.as a tool instead of having it use me. And I really think that that was what I was trying to do.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:32):

I like that "having it being used as a tool", it feeds right into that kind of intentional use of tech rather than allowing tech to drive your day.

Ivy Staker  (04:45):

Yeah. It's not easy, but um, tried to really build in that intentionality.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:50):

So Ivy, one of the things that you openly share in your writing is your own journey with disordered eating. And can you talk a little bit about that and maybe about the role that maybe social media played in this path?

Ivy Staker  (05:35):

Yeah. I think I was lucky enough to come of age before social media. Um, my disordered eating and eating disorder happened when I was in my late teens and my major influences were more television and magazines. Um, so it didn't play so much a role in, uh, sinking me deeper into disorder and harming my mental health. Um, but it did play a huge role in helping me come out of that and supporting my recovery. So when I was first recovering from an eating disorder, it's a really deeply personal journey. And I wasn't telling very many people, it was something that took a long time and it was non-linear and it wasn't just like," Today I'm better." Um, and I didn't have a lot of examples of other people who did that had that shared experience. So when I found a community on Instagram of folks sharing sentiments that I had only ever thought, um, that had recovered.

Ivy Staker  (06:37):

And so I had this clear example of someone who had gotten to the other side, it gave me so much hope. Um, it made me feel less alone and gave, you know, words to things that I had never heard anybody else articulate before. It was so supportive and helpful for me. I didn't have friends in similar positions. I didn't have, you know, a support group. I would refer to these things and have my feelings validated. Um, sure. People posting about, you know, it's okay to eat the same amount of food as your partner, as your male partner. Um, you know, I'd never had that validated for me before. Um, and it was kind of like this counter-culture, the hard thing about eating disorder recovery is that you get a lot of messages that push you back in, you know, a lot, a lot of diet messages. To have a source of media that was countering that, and that I could seek out, you know, to sort of help me ignore those messages was really empowering.

Hillary Wilkinson (07:57):

Right. So would you say you kind of actively groomed your social media accounts to only be those ones that you found helpful?

Ivy Staker  (08:08):

Yes, absolutely. I was extremely, uh, cutthroat about what I would consume and what I wouldn't, and it made me feel worse or I didn't feel it was supporting my recovery. It was out. Um, and that how that came to be my real friends was, um, you know, a lot of my eating disorder was also an obsession with exercise. Um, and I'm athletic and outdoorsy and sporty and a lot of my friends are as well, but if I was chilling by the lake and I saw pictures of my friends on the summit of a mountain, it took all of my joy out of this beautiful day on the lake with my lovely partner. Um, and I didn't want to have to compare to that. I wanted to be in the moment and I didn't want to feed those thoughts. I just realized it was, it was robbing me. It's the comparison monster. Yeah, yeah. For myself, I just found maybe it fed envy or I think mostly discontent. It made me feel worse about myself. Um, I'm not sure I was putting a judgment on them, but it definitely put a lot of judgment on myself.

Hillary Wilkinson (11:18):

If people are, you know, going to maybe try this themselves, how, how did your friends initially respond to you? Did you say point blank? Hey, I'm starting this social experiment because I'm an ethnographer and an anthropologist. This is what I do. Or like what, tell me, like, did tell it, take me down this path. How did this all go down?

Ivy Staker  (11:50):

I didn't tell them, I didn't tell them. I think it started by with just a few select accounts that I found, particularly, you know, overzealous posters maybe, um, that I just started to cut out. And then I started doing more of a, like, what else don't I want in my life? Um, not that I don't love my friends and that I do kind of, I miss knowing sometimes what they're up to, but it's nicer to know what they're up to when we talk. Um, they tell me about it and that's awesome and very engaging. Um, but I don't need to know it at every moment and I don't need it to intrude into my life at, you know, moments. And, um, I took Instagram off my phone as well. So I think that really helps. Like, you know, I can only see it if I sit down with a desktop.

Ivy Staker  (12:35):

Um, so it started with unfollowing, all of them, it eventually went to deleting my account and then making a fake account where I just look at a few of the, um, accounts that I find really supportive to me when I feel like this person really nourishes my mental health and what they say really helps me feel in balance. Then I'll go look at those specifically. I don't think I even follow them. I just write it in.

Hillary Wilkinson (13:22):

So if our listeners maybe are identifying with this, what would you say are some like key warning signs, maybe that an account you're following is no longer serving, you?

Ivy Staker  (13:38):

I think, you know, I think you really know if you allow yourself to feel that and you can see that it's intruding into the way that you may be you're interpreting a situation or feeling in the moment. I could tell that it was something that I had seen someone posted on Instagram that was impacting my mood that day. I didn't want to admit it, um, because I liked -like it's like - looking at like, uh, I dunno, anything that's kind of fun to just zonk out and look at like a trashy magazine. I didn't want to give that up. Um, but when I got really real with myself, I could tell, and I think people just know what they, what these things are impacting them. Um, you know, I just felt like a little discontented or it wasn't, I didn't feel as happy as I had before I'd seen that content or was mulling it over and thinking about it in a negative way. Um, not in a way that was causing me to have, you know, new insights and think differently and open my mind, but in a way that was causing me to, to be smaller.

Hillary Wilkinson (14:48):

Oh, I like that imagery coming from even more than a fixed mindset, it's like a compressed mindset rather than an open mindset.

Ivy Staker  (15:01):

Yeah. Narrowing kind of spiraling around these thoughts. So you and I can, can self-monitor so to speak, you know, but you and I are sitting here as grownups with fully formed frontal lobes, you know, in our brain. And what we know about brain science now is that, you know, the front of the prefrontal cortex doesn't even finish wiring until your mid twenties. So really I'm thinking about how do we teach our children who are going to be getting on social media, probably in their mid teens. I encourage people to wait. Yes, the age limit is 13 legally by many of these platforms, but that has nothing to do with developmental stages. It just is 100% to do with legislation that was passed long ago, um, on data collection. So we recommend waiting as long as possible to engage on social media platforms. what would be the best way for us to kind of try to explain it to kids so that they would get it.

Ivy Staker  (16:58):

I think the best we can do, maybe in terms of this conversation is really tuning in to how things make you feel and maybe opening the discussion, um, with young people to talk about how seeing certain things makes them feel, um, about themselves, whether they're having sort of these comparative thoughts, um, acknowledging that that's something that can happen, um, that you've felt that too, and maybe just opening the floor for that discussion and, um, talking about choosing and you being in control of the content. Um, a lot of times I think we can let it take us over and take the power back. You miss it in the beginning, but then you don't miss it so much after

Hillary Wilkinson:

I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one?

Ivy Staker  (21:43):

Get honest with yourself and make it a point to really reflect on what role technology and what role certain content is playing in your life. Um, I really think, and it was for me and my own recovery experience. Some things were really healing and really helpful. And I loved looking at them and consuming my content. And I'm very grateful for those people. But pay attention, find those people, stick with them and let the others go. Nothing bad happened.

Hillary Wilkinson (22:31):

That's key. That's key. Nothing bad happens. Oh, okay. Well, I will post a link in the show notes to the article that brought me to you so everyone can enjoy your words. Ivy even want to thank you so much for being here today and giving us a new lens to view social media, which primarily in this, in this kind of, um, niche, if you will, of digital wellness, et cetera, it gets a really bad rap. So I was interested in hearing this positive take on it, and you kind of underlined that, you know, technology is great. Using it intentionally can make it awesome and can be very healing. And thank you so much because that's ultimately what we want to do.