Healthy Screen Habits Takeaway

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Resources

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Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson (00:00):

Today's episode is about the intersection of tech and kids living with ADHD. But first a quote, “The parents who are wondering if they are doing enough are most often the ones who are.” So I read this on the website of today's guest and immediately felt a little bit better, cuz I know that I spend a lot of time trying to make the most of these childhood years that everyone assures me goes so fast. But I wonder if I'm doing it right. And I think most of us on this kind of cruise ship of parenting struggled to varying degrees with ongoing questions of am I doing it right? And then if you have a child who processes the world differently than you, it can seriously have you questioning your navigation.

Hillary Wilkinson (00:55):

So this is where my experts today come in. Lori Long, Katie Severson and Mallory Yee are the founders of the Childhood Collective. They have a combined amount of over 40 years of working with kids and through courses, free downloads and social media, they share through courses, free downloads and social media. They share their expertise through parent family tips that par that families, blah, blah. I can't get this out through parent friendly tips that families can put to use in their home to help create calm and support a happy, thriving child with A D H D Welcome Childhood Collective!

Katie (01:44):

Thank you so much. We're so excited to be here.

Hillary Wilkinson:

The Childhood collective supports families who have a child or children who live with A D H D and I kind of, I'm interested, how do people find you at what part of their journey do they usually come to you?

Lori (04:28):

So we are on social media a lot, specifically Instagram. So we do lots of videos and content on Instagram and I think most people have found us that way. Um, some through Facebook. And we also have a pretty extensive blog. Um, so when, you know, families first get that diagnosis, a lot of them are getting on the internet and, and, you know, asking questions about like, you know, how do I find treatment or what treatments are effective or things like that. And so we have lots of blogs that people will find us through, um, to answer some of those common questions that ADHD parents have. Um, I think many families are coming to us, um, when they're starting to suspect that their child might have ADHD. Um, so they haven't yet had a diagnosis, but maybe they've had a teacher suggest it or maybe they're, they have a family history of it, a parent already has that diagnosis and now they're starting to see in their four or five year old, um, a lot of those same symptoms.

Lori (05:34):

And so they're just really starting the journey of like, do I need to get a diagnosis or what strategies can I do you know, when they're young and they're not yet ready to get an evaluation, um, up to families who have had the diagnosis for a really long time. And, um, it's a journey and you're constantly looking for tools and resources to help you through just functioning in everyday life. Um, so we get families from the very beginning of the journey to families who have been, um, in that journey of parenting, ADHD for many years. And they're just, um, constantly kind of seeking tools to support their kids as their kids. Ch needs change over the years, um Sure. As they grow and develop.

Hillary Wilkinson (06:19):

Obviously I'm gonna be asking you guys about tech and screens in relation to your field, but before we dive in, I, I'm kind of interested in finding out what are some, I don't know, I identifiers if you will, like, kids are so different, people are so different. How – you mentioned that some people come to you guys after, you know, seeing some things that they might be going “Hmm”. Over. So how, how could parents identify what might be like ADHD type behavior in my child over someone who is say, just, you know, having a, having a tough time with impulse control or something along those lines?

Mallory (07:04):

Sure. And this can be a challenging distinction for parents. And one of the first questions they bring to us as well, again, if they're coming to us a three-year-old, a four-year-old, maybe a kindergartner and they're saying, you know, my kid has boundless energy, or My kid can't focus on a task for longer than a minute. They're having these like first concerns and they're saying, is that normal or does my child have ADHD? And the tricky part about ADHD is a lot of the signs of ADHD are typical until they're not, until they're happening so frequently or at a greater intensity, or the child isn't aging out of that as their peers are, that's when we might start to say, okay, maybe, maybe we are looking at ADHD. Because for a three-year-old having a lot of energy jumping on the couch, you know, attending to one task for a couple minutes before they lose interest and move on to the next one is very developmentally appropriate for a three-year-old.

Mallory (08:02):

However, for a kindergartner, we're going to expect them to be able to sit in a chair for a little bit longer, attend to tasks for a longer period of time. And that's when we might start to say, maybe we are looking at ADHD. So we're generally not making an ADHD diagnosis before four, four is generally the earliest, but a lot of providers wait until five, six or beyond. And some of the signs that an evaluator, a psychologist, a pediatrician, a psychiatrist, might be looking for things like the really high energy levels, climbing things, challenges sitting still, constantly moving, a lot of fidgeting, um, talking a lot, speaking loudly, um, challenges attending to tasks that are like boring or hard. However, oftentimes these kids can also focus on tasks that are very reinforcing and rewarding for longer periods of time, which confuses parents too because they say, mm-hmm <affirmative>, my kid can play a video game for two hours, but they can't sit for one minute at the dinner table without having to stand up and move their body.

Mallory (09:08):

Um, other things that we're looking for and as kids start to, you know, go into school, um, challenges, staying focused, avoiding distractions. So you may have heard like the victim of the shiny penny they're working in, oh, shiny penny and now their, their train of thought is somewhere else. Those are some of the things that we're starting to look for. And again, a lot of these things are developmentally appropriate in the early years, but kids that later go on to get a diagnosis of adhd there have, are showing these signs at a greater intensity or a lot more often, or they're not growing out of some of those things as they get older. Another thing that I'll jump in cuz it also relates to screens it feels like often is that, um, these kids often show really big emotions too. They seem to go from zero to 60 very quickly. Um, they can show some aggressive behaviors when they're experiencing those big emotions and have a harder time calming down. Um, so that's another concern or a sign of ADHD that parents often bring to the table when they're wondering, does my child have ADHD or is this just typical development?

Hillary Wilkinson (10:14):

We hear a lot about executive function and it's a, it's kind of this phrase <laugh> that gets thrown around so much, I think it's gotten diluted and maybe people like, maybe we just need to kind of reset what, what is executive function and why is it important to help kids develop it?

Katie (10:51):

That's such a great question. I completely agree with you that executive function gets thrown around a lot. As a speech pathologist I have parents that come to my office and say, I just, we need to work on executive function. And I say,” tell me more about that”. And they're like, “I don't really know, but we just need help.” And so I think that that's, that's really important to think of like, what is executive functioning? And really the executive functions are a set of skills. They're brain-based skills that help us to set a goal and stay on track to make a plan. How are we gonna meet that goal? Um, not get distracted by the things that are the  pennies and the other thoughts that are gonna distract us and get us off topic. Um, executive functions, when you break them down have names like working memory, which is like your ability to hold information in your mind to manipulate it and use it later. Um, self-regulation, which is a lot of the emotional kind of ups and downs, things like inhibition that, that pause, that break system that says like, whoa, probably shouldn't touch that hot stove. And so executive functions are a set of, of skills and they develop in kids throughout their life. And this is something that a lot of parents aren't aware that really executive functions don't fully form until age 24, 25 years old.

Hillary Wilkinson (12:05):

Ok. We're, so we're talking it's all prefrontal cortex stuff is what you're talking about? 

Katie (12:11):

Yes. Absolutely. Interesting. And we have so, and that frontal lobe, right? So when you have like that, um, in certain examples like a brain injury, like a frontal lobe injury, you tend to see a lot of issues with executive functioning. But kids with ADHD, they don't have a brain injury that's something developmental that, in other words, they were born that way and their executive functions are developing, but they're not developing at the same pace as what we would call typical kids. So kids with ADHD are gonna have delays in their executive functioning. Um, and again, this is sort of throughout the lifetime up through the college years, everyone is developing their executive functioning. So with the hot stove example, that's something that we get taught and we get taught, hey, this is hot. Uh, but the piece that is growing is that ability to stop yourself and inhibit when it's something looks fun or interesting.

Katie (13:03):

Um, and so kids with ADHD are often up to 30% behind their peers in executive functioning. And this impacts a variety of things like social interactions, um, their ability to self-regulate in the classroom, their ability to shift off of things that are really motivating and fun, um, to shift into something that's less interesting. And a lot of this is really brain-based in terms of like, the dopamine and how these things are working. But high level, executive functions are a set of skills and all kids are developing them, but kids with ADHD are developing them slower. So we often hear from parents like, he just seems really immature and that's, those executive functions just aren't coming along at the, at the pace that you would expect. Um, but this is something that's really important for parents to understand because when we reframe the challenges as executive functioning differences, it's a lot easier for parents to one: be compassionate and come from a place of understanding. And then two: to be problem solvers because what can we do to support these lagging executive functions, which oftentimes a consequence or a punishment isn't going to teach the skill that we need to teach.

Hillary Wilkinson (14:15):

Right. I, I'm just gonna bring up like how helpful your tips are on your social media feeds mm-hmm. I just love how you give people like concrete things they can do to help a child, like finish a task such as morning readiness. And what you suggest is putting two baskets in a drawer and one basket has all the tools that they need to get ready. You know, the toothbrush, the toothpaste, the hair comb, the mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, whatever it is that and everything. And as they finish it, they move it to the next basket. I mean, because honestly getting out the door in the morning can be just, you know, set the whole day up prior to your kid arriving at school, you don't wanna walk in with them already feeling beat down by, I've already gotten in trouble today.

Hillary Wilkinson (15:34):

You know? Yeah. And you can just, you know, plan for success. So I love that. I love the whole creating calm and setting kids up for success.

Katie (15:42):

Thank you so much, <laugh>. We really appreciate that, mornings are chaos in all of our homes as well. And so we're always trying these different things and figuring out like, okay, how can we tweak it? And um, as our kids age, they have different needs too. And so the visual schedules can be great for the littler ones, but then they're like, mom, I don't need my visual schedule. So the basket is a great kind of tactile way for those kids who struggle with working memory. Did I put deodorant on? Well, if it's in this basket, then it's done. So I <laugh> that's one that everyone seems to really appreciate cuz it's just giving a visual cue. But what we're doing there is we are helping support executive functioning and that's really the key.

Hillary Wilkinson (16:20):

Perfect. Okay. So when we come back, I am going to ask Lori Mallory and Katie about screen time and ADHD. 

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Hillary Wilkinson (16:51):

My guests are the creators of The Childhood Collective, a company who empowers parents by teaching science-based strategies to raise happy and confident children with ADHD. Recognizing that happy, confident children is probably the goal of most parents. <laugh> of all, you know, children with all varying learning styles. Neurodiversity is everything that keeps us all unique and interesting. I'm recognizing that by specifically pointing out that in regards to raising a child with ADHD, there are things I probably don't get because my life path and parenting journey has looked different from that. I, uh, I I don't live with a child with ADHD. So can you explain why kids with ADHD might need some extra tools in their wheelhouse to maintain happiness and move through the world with confidence? 

Mallory (18:09):

Yeah, and I think it ties nicely into Katie's explanation and description of executive functioning. These kids, kids with ADHD, their brains are growing, developing, working differently than their neurotypical peers. However, they're often confronted with neurotypical expectations. At home, at school and extracurricular activities that are not taking into account how their brain is working and growing differently. And again, maybe even 30%, um, behind their peers when it comes to some executive functions. So, you know, put yourself in a child with ADHD'S shoes. You, your brain is working and growing differently, but you're confronted with the same expectations every day as all your peers. You can't measure up. A lot of times you're struggling more, you're getting feedback from your teacher that you're not paying attention enough, you missed another assignment. You're, you know, the, the other kids in your class are describing you as naughty.

Mallory (19:07):

It really starts to wear on your confidence and your self-esteem. And especially if you don't know why your brain works differently, maybe you don't know you have ADHD or you don't understand what that means. Um, you start to internalize a lot of that lived experience that you're not able to do what your classmates are able to do. Um, you're getting in more trouble at home than your siblings are. Um, you're, you're, you're at soccer practice, but you're picking the flowers and your parents are really upset at you for not, you know, noticing the ball go right past you. It really starts to wear on your confidence and you're noticing that you need a lot more help with things than your peers do, but you just don't get why. Mm-hmm. So by, by recognizing that it's not kids with ADHD, they're not trying to be naughty, they're not trying to be challenging, they're not trying to be overly dependent on you. It's just how their brain is growing and working. We realize that we need to give them extra tools and grow skills to help them be successful, find that confidence, learn that, okay, my brain works differently. That doesn't mean that I'm naughty or bad, it just means that maybe I need to do something differently. Maybe this is a skill that I need to grow. And then we give them a lot of power in that and that helps them become more confident when they find that success.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:21):

Let's move into kind of the area of screens and ADHD. Um, we at Healthy screen habits sometimes we get messaging from parents that they feel like the only time that they can get their child with ADHD to focus or attend to a task is when they are on a screen. And I'm wondering what, since you guys kind of understand the way the developing brain works, ADHD brains in particular, what creates this focus?

Katie (21:06):

Yeah, that's a really common thing. And actually both Laurie and Mallory, you know, are child psychologists. So they work in the diagnostic side of ADHD and a lot of times that's the most, the first thing parents will say. They'll say, my child cannot have ADHD because when they play video games, they can play for nine hours at a time and or TV is another one. Video games I think as kids get older tend to be, become more and more popular. Um, but really what's going on there is screens are kind of like the perfect storm for kids with ADHD because it's interesting and it's very, like there's lights and it's constantly changing and it's something that you can be really successful at. Um, and and I think that when you, especially when you compare screens to another task like homework, um, or cleaning your room or even playing outside, there's so much more that has to go into that because it's kind of boring.

Katie (22:02):

You have to have task persistence and do the hard things. And being outside requires a lot more creativity, a lot more physical movement. Right? And so really the screens are just like the perfect storm because they're really, really motivating for kids with ADHD. Their brains are literally designed to be super hyper focused in on the things that are fun and interesting. And video games are, they challenge kids, they have them, you know, get to the next level. There's kind of like this addiction piece where, um, well I just need, I just need to get to the end of this level. And my own kids have tablets now and they just got them for Christmas. And it's, I'm seeing it there too, like, oh mom, mom, mom, mom, I just need to finish this. Um, and I'm sort of in this mindset of like, let's go.

Katie (22:42):

We need to, we're done now that's over. Another piece that plays a role here is time blindness. And so a lot of times kids with ADHD don't necessarily feel the passage of time and in a typical way they're not like, oh, that was an hour. Right. Um, really putting away laundry takes three minutes, but we get, “ugh, it's gonna take hours!” And then they can sit and play a video game for hours and say, I was only playing for a few minutes. And it really is, it's not a behavior. They actually don't feel that passage of time and, and how time is moving.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:15):

Interesting. Okay. So I also, I hear analogies being made to like brain training that sound a lot like muscle training. It's the old, like, if you don't use it, you lose it philosophy! Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, when a child with A D H D is training, or when a child with ADHD is on a screen, is it training the brain to be able to focus? Is it like a muscle in training to get stronger in this area?

Mallory (23:45):

I, I mean, we do like to think of the brain as a muscle and you can exercise it and you can grow skills and you can make it stronger. But I don't think we have evidence to support the notion that screens are necessarily doing that for our kids with ADHD unfortunately, since they love it so much, um, we just don't have solid evidence that it's growing those skills and especially we don't have evidence supporting that. Maybe they grew their focus in that game, but that's not, you know, externalizing or generalizing to other areas that's not growing, their ability to focus while they sit down and do homework or persist through chores. So I don't think that at this time we have strong enough evidence to show that screens are growing focus for kids with ADHD.

Hillary Wilkinson (24:30):

I wanna ask about a challenge that I've experienced in my own house and I see many other families having similar struggles and that is how to navigate a smooth transition off the screen. I know that because of everything that you've talked about, the hyperfocus, the, the time blindness, just the nature of it being so fun, it's, um, it's very difficult to disengage. And if I need to move my child from one screen-based activity to the next one, do you have techniques that can help avoid the meltdown?

Lori (27:33):

Yeah, so there are a couple things that we, um, would recommend in those situations or that you could try, uh, to troubleshoot them. But one thing is we, we love Time Timer, which is like a visual timer, uh, for kids. So Katie mentioned that kids with A D H D don't really understand or see the passage of time, so when they get on a screen, you'll ask them to shut off and they'll be like, well, I've been on here two minutes. Um, and it's really been an hour. Um, so it's really helpful. Having time timer is a visual timer that parents can use and there are many different types that you can have, but having that available for kids to kind of see, and when parents are saying, okay, giving checks of it's been 30 minutes, look at your clock, um, or you have five minutes left, they can kind of see the passage of time, um, because in their brain they're not really feeling that passage of time when they're doing something that's really fun.

Lori (28:31):

Um, so really again, sticking to being consistent and, and staying consistent with, okay, we have a plan of, we're doing an hour of screens today, we're setting it for an hour. Um, and that consistency is also really important because our kids can get into these battles of negotiation. And I say this as a parent, um, who experiences this on a regular basis. My kids just said to me the other day, over break, um, they were ar you know, asking for more and more in negotiating like more screen time. And I was like, “No, we're not doing this!” And they're like, but you know, why do you keep asking? And they're like, “because the last couple times, like, we asked and, and you gave us more!” <laugh>.

Hillary Wilkinson (29:15):

 Oh. And you're like, oh, I've just enforced intermittent rewards. <laugh>. Yeah.

Lori (29:20):

So again, I'm saying this very much as a parent who experiences this myself. Um, but those battles of negotiating or getting upset or arguing or things like that can be minimized when we have a plan and we're really consistent with that plan of we're sticking to this. Um, a couple other things that can be helpful are, you know, we, we'll often see parents like trying to transition into like a really non-preferred task of like bedtime routine. Like, let's go brush your teeth or, um, you know, let's go do homework now, or things like that where that transition can be extra hard because they're going from this really fun thing to this thing that they really hate. Um, so sometimes planning the day with screen time that maybe goes into outdoor fun time, um, or outdoor activities or something that really is a little bit more neutral can be helpful too in that transition.

Lori (30:21):

Um, I think, you know, sometimes, um, knowing the game that your child's playing is also helpful. Um, so if you can find sort of natural stopping points within that. So I always say like, if somebody came up and I'm, I'm really into The Crown right now, so if somebody was like, just shut, you know, The Crown off in the middle of the episode when like this really exciting part was happening, I would be really upset and frustrated. Um, so I think, you know, finding more of a natural stopping point, um, and giving some flexibility with that and, and again, building that into a plan with your kids is helpful. Like, my kids know that if it's within five minutes, we'll shut it down. I'll give them five minutes leeway of if they're in a place in the game or in a show that's really exciting, I'll give 'em leeway of an extra five minutes to stop at more of a natural point within that game, um, or within that show.

Lori (31:23):

So understanding kind of where those natural stopping points are, um, can be helpful too in making it less like upsetting when we're shutting down that, that screen. Um, and lastly, I think really keeping in mind too of like having limits on the amount of time our kids really are on screens is important because I talk to families daily with kids with ADHD, um, that really do, um, if they're on it for a prolonged period of time, it can cause excess anxiety, stress, anger, um, and those emotion, those negative emotions seem to increase the longer our kids are on a screen. And so making sure that they're having, um, time within their day and aren't spending excess amounts of time on screens is important too because we see those negative emotions get enhanced. I think the longer our kids are on, on a device.

Hillary Wilkinson (32:26):

Hmm. Interesting. So I, um, I really like your, your, uh, acknowledgement of the type of game that your child is playing that you're, you know, your whole example, um, because it's respectful of their, their chosen activity. And I also, we use that in our, in our house as well as the “find a good stopping spot.” And what I realized what I needed to do was also incorporate those words into other activities. So if my, say if - I'm gonna throw my son under the bus, my son's the one who's <laugh> who tends to, uh, tend to have a hard time disengaging from video gaming. Um, but like he'd be out playing basketball and I'd I'd say “Find a good stopping spot.” And so it's not just cuz otherwise I found that that phrase that find a good stopping spot was basically like a (choking sound), you know, <laugh>. So I think, um, whatever the vocabulary you're using around that, like let's wind it down, it's good to kind of almost standardize that vocabulary across all activities. So it's not just associated with, “this is my mom getting on me about, or my parent getting on me about getting off of the screen”, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. So again, just, just from one mom to another <laugh>, just trying to share what, share what we've found worked in our house that day. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Thank you.

Hillary Wilkinson (34:09):

Okay. So all of these things are really important and really great. To boil it down is almost impossible, but if you guys could have one message out to parents who are raising kids with ADHD about technology, like the relationship of technology and their child, what would it be?

Lori(34:33):

Sitting down as a family and making a plan that works for your family ahead of time is one of our top recommendations for families around screens. Um, and I think going along with that, including your child in making that plan is essential. So anytime we want to start these things, it's, it's, again, like you said, it's  respectful of them and they're gonna have more buy-in in that process, um, if they can have some say in the amount of time that they're spending or how things are shut down. Um, but really making that plan and sticking to it and having some consistency around it, um, really helps things to be a little bit more smooth. And as parents, we're not just kind of like flying by the seat of our pants and doing things cuz if we do that, uh, a lot of times it's just convenient, you know, and then sometimes it ends up being more time than we want it to be. Um, our kids negotiate with us. So I think it's really important.

Hillary Wilkinson (35:38):

Your words of setting up a plan around tech are almost identical to the way that I introduce our family tech plan, which is a free downloadable tool on healthy screen habits and we actually call it the Family Tech Plan <laugh>. And that's exactly, it's a conversational springboard. It is to, you know, get people thinking about what family philosophy is on tech and how they can incorporate it into their lives in a healthy, fun way. And also to avoid some of the dangers and the pitfalls that do arise because we, we have to look out for those as well. So we have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask the childhood collective for their healthy screen habit.

—-Ad Break:  Donor thank you- Danielle Waters—---

My guests today are child psychologist Lori Long and Mallory Ye and speech language pathologist Katie Severson. They are the team that makes up the Childhood Collective, an organization dedicated to supporting parents of children with ADHD. So ladies, now's the time I ask you for a healthy screen habit. This is a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own homes. Do you have one?

Katie (37:54):

Absolutely. So our top recommendation is to develop a screen time agreement. And I think one of the things that a lot of parents can fall into, I know I personally fall into this with my own kids sometimes is parents feel like it's their job to create the screen time plan and sort of implement it. Where what we really recommend is sitting down as a family and talking through “what does that look like?” So for example, we have families that will put all of the devices on a charger at the end of the night in the kitchen so that the devices aren't going with them into their room and that kind of thing. Other families will say, we don't do a lot of screens during the week only after homework, chores, everything is kind of completed, but you can have more free reign of screens on Saturday and Sunday.

Katie (38:40):

It's just really personal to each individual family. But the biggest key there is that when you're making what we call a screen time agreement, um, we, we really recommend sitting down as a family and talking about it. And you want everyone's buy-in. And I know for me, I have an eight year old and I would be, um, sort of so nervous in the past to talk to her about what you, what does she think about this? Because I feel like she would say I should just have access to TV all the time. Uh, we're not a gaming family quite yet, but she loves the television. And so, um, with that and a lot of encouragement from Lori and Mallory, as we developed our own screen time agreement for our online courses, I was able to sit down with my own kids and say, what do you think?

Katie (39:21):

And I was shocked at kind of the insight, well, you know, mom, I don't wanna be doing screens all the time cause I have other stuff I wanna do. And, and it was, it was really interesting and kind of like a relief for me cuz I feel like we teach this, but it's hard sometimes to put it into practice. So, um, for families who are thinking about developing a screen time agreement, just making sure that you get everyone's input, um, that doesn't mean you have to do it exactly as your kids would like, but um, it's just a really collaborative process to increase that buy-in.

Hillary Wilkinson (39:49):

As always, links to the childhood collective.com and a complete transcript of this conversation can be found in today's episode show notes you can get there as well as you can find your own family tech plan by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click on the podcast button at the top of the page and scroll down to find this episode. Katie, Mallory and Lori, this has been great. Thank you so much for all that you do for families. You guys are really making a difference.

Katie (40:26):

Thanks again for having us.