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Book - IGen by Jean Twenge 

This season is all about healthy screen habits, heroes. And when we think of heroes, they're often people who are helping others get out of trapped spaces. Maybe say they're, you know, trapped in a burning building, or being held captive, as parents today, face the challenges of raising kids in a digital age. We often feel like we are trapped in this quagmire of technology that was never designed for kids. Devices come fully loaded, and we've got digital natives who view tech in the same light as a major utility like water or electricity. It's something that they feel is needed to survive and thrive in today's landscape.

Hillary Wilkinson: (01:28)

So this is where our hero, my guest today, comes in providing help in this area of sort of digital entrapment for parents. He's providing a pathway forward that is safe, balanced, and fun. He's created kid-friendly devices to span the early years of phone acquisition as the co-founder and CEO of Troomi Wireless.  A mobile phone platform designed to improve kids' mental health through a safe and balanced relationship with technology. And today we get to learn all about it. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Bill Brady!

Bill Brady: (02:17)

Thank you, Hillary. So fantastic to be with you today. I'm really excited.

Hillary Wilkinson: (02:22)

Thank you. So Bill, you definitely own this kind of area of the pond for as far as healthy screen habits goes with digital wellness and safe tech. What made you get interested in this area?

Bill Brady: (02:41)

You know, it goes back a lot of years, Hilary, even before I was married. And I, and I've been married just as background. I've been married for about 23 years and have five kids. So I'm in the thick of all of this with all of your listeners. We're all in this together. But even before I was married, as a student studying communication and marketing, somehow I got really keyed into the effect of technology on humans. And this is going back to the late nineties before everyone had phones, and certainly before social media. But I've always had this sensitivity about it. And when my wife and I got married, we decided upfront that we'd be very intentional about the way we introduced technology in our family. And, and then obviously with the proliferation of smartphones and social media, the urgency around that as we had our five kids just increased exponentially. And about five years ago, I decided to make a career change. I'd been a marketing executive for a couple decades and made a career change and said, “I need to do something that's gonna help society that's gonna be more fulfilling and, and make a difference.” And, and that's when I switched my career.

Hillary Wilkinson: (04:04)

And you strapped on the cape and started saving the rest of us. So thank you for that.  So one of the most asked questions that we get, and it's understandable because I think people are looking for strict guidelines surrounding phone acquisition, and it's, it's tricky. And one of the most asked questions is: what age should I get my kid a phone? And it's very tricky. Not all phones are created equal and serious, sincerely. What we do not recommend is handing a child a fully loaded smartphone right out the gate. So with all of that, do you have recommendations on an age or stage of acquisition for a first phone?

Bill Brady: (05:05)

I think stage is the right way to look at it. Age is difficult because every family circumstance is different, and every child's maturity level is different. I even thinking among my own kids, you know?

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:18)

Mm-Hmm.

Bill Brady: (05:19)

And I hope they're not listening, , . But among my own kids, I have some who have been mature beyond their years and some not so much . And, and in making that decision,  it's really looking at when, when are they ready to handle the responsibility? But even more specifically, when is there a specific need that needs to be met?

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:45)

Mm-Hmm. 

Bill Brady: (05:46)

I've got an 11 year old son right now, for example. And this kid is responsible and very mature for his age, but his interests are not on screens. He wants to be out camping and hiking and building fires, and he collects knives and plays football, and he wants to be outside with his brother and his friends. He does not have a phone. He doesn't have one of my phones. Um, because there's not a very specific need for him yet. And I think that's the, that's the measuring stick is when is there a legitimate need and when is the child ready to handle the responsibility that comes with meeting that need?

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:31)

I like that. I like that kind of one, two approach. It considers both sides of it and doesn't just make it a given, which is hard because I think some people say, oh, you get a phone when you are 12.

Bill Brady: (06:46)

Right.

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:46)

Or when you are fill in the blank age, and I'm with you. Not, not every kid hits the same developmental levels at the same ages. Do you see any trends as far as ages and stages with, um, phone ownership and like, what, what is happening now?

Bill Brady: (07:12)

The age is definitely getting lower and lower. Hmm. In, in large part, I think there are two driving factors. One is that most families don't have a home phone anymore. So if you've got kids that are gonna be, um, alone after school or they're babysitting, they have to have a way to communicate. And if your kids are gonna be babysitting for other people, they have to have a way to communicate. That's just a safety thing. And, and, and frankly, that's why my older kids, my our first three are girls, and they did get phones around the age of 12 for that purpose. Uh, the other big driving factor is that schools are increasingly expecting that kids have devices to access digital learning platforms. So it's not unusual that kids will be asked, “okay, take out your phones now and do X, Y, Z” and, and that does, that does get uncomfortable if you're the kid that says, “Uhhhh, I actually don't have a phone?”  And, and so that, and, and we see that age coming lower and lower, statistically there's a large portion of, of American kids that have phones by the age of 10 and 11, and certainly 12 is very normal.

Hillary Wilkinson: (08:33)

Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree with all of those numbers. And I think, um, your assessment of most phones, most homes, not having a landline anymore is completely accurate. I mean, we have one, and literally the phone is in the closet and it . We, we,

Bill Brady: (08:54)

We

Hillary Wilkinson: (08:54)

Had to turn off the ringer because the only, the only time that we were getting phone calls was all from solicitors. So , it's, it's only there because we live in kind of a high fire area, and you know, cell phone towers burn down. So we, we have it for an emergency purpose, but I mean, we, we are not the norm, I would say.  We have to take a short break, but when we come back, I am going to ask Bill Brady all about his creation of a different, safer, balanced approach to cell phone ownership. 

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Hillary Wilkinson:

I'm speaking with Bill Brady, a father of five, and the founder and CEO of Troomi Wireless, a 2023 National Parenting Product Award winner. The Troomi mission is to provide kids with a safer smartphone. Well, first congratulations on the win .

Bill Brady: (11:49)

 Thank you.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:50)

How is Troomi, me different from other devices on the market?

Bill Brady: (11:57)

Well, first off, you know, there's a whole category that's been created over the last five years, uh, of, of safer devices for kids. When I got into this space, I mean, the option was iPhone or flip phone. Mm-Hmm. And flip phones were becoming increasingly hard to find. And on the spectrum and the, and the, the landscape that's out there now, that's really what parents are choosing. It's, you know, do I start my kid off with a fully loaded iPhone? Most people are realizing that's not a good idea. Uh, or do I look at, at some of the safe devices on the market, some of those safe devices are locked down so much to talk and text only. They're not really practical for kids as they grow. And, and that's where Troomi was born, was the recognition of, well, of course a phone for a kid should be safe, you know, and protect them from pornography and predators and bullies.

Bill Brady: (12:58)

Um, those are what I call the obvious concerns, but also protect them from the less obvious concerns, stress, anxiety, and depression, which we see come now from too much screen time and social media and influences like that.Our mission statement talks about, you know, kids have this inherent ability and potential to learn and do and become anything. And we want to make sure that they've got the healthy relationship with technology that helps them gets there. It doesn't create stumbling blocks, and it enables them where appropriate. And on a, on a, a more personal level, the reason we do this is because of the ability to really help families. I got a letter, uh, not too long ago from a 14 year old girl in New York City. She actually, she actually reached out with a, a, a letter and began, “Dear Mr. Brady, I have to tell you my story…” And, uh, and she described how she'd gotten into trouble with an iPhone and her mother took it away. And she said, “for two months I didn't have a phone, and I thought I was going to die.” She said, and she said, after two months, my mom came to me and she said, “it's time for a second chance, and here's a new phone. It's from Troomi.” And she said that when her mom explained that it didn't have social media on it, again, I thought I was gonna die.

Bill Brady: (36:44)

But then she said, “The reason I'm writing you is to, to tell you thank you, thank you, thank you. I didn't know I could be this happy.”

Hillary Wilkinson: (36:57)

Oh my gosh.

Bill Brady: (37:00)

And I just burst into tears.

Bill Brady: (37:03)

And, and that's, that's why we do what we do. 'cause we know that all this stuff that we've inadvertently done to a generation of kids with smartphones, it doesn't have to be that way. And even the kids themselves, if given the chance, recognize that they're better off without social media and all the addictions of smartphones.

 So philosophically, where Troomi is different is, number one, it's safety and flexibility. So you have the constant protection from those concerns I just listed, but enough flexibility to give kids what they need for, for school apps, for the sports they play, for music. If you let them listen to music, uh, to, for their, any church apps they need. Things like that where they can, uh, they can have the safe environment, but still have the tools they need to, to be productive while still encouraging a screen/life balance. We don't think kids should have phones as the default for how they spend their time. Mm-Hmm. . Um, so it's just, it's the tools they need without so much that they get sucked into this, you know, my life is now virtual and on the screen, which is not, not healthy.

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:16)

Right. Right. And developmentally, I think it really, speaks to the trickiness of kids navigating social media when they're, when, especially when they're trying to figure out, they're trying to create their own definitions of self. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:36)

It's, um, it's, I think it's really important. You've taken all of these things into account.

Bill Brady: (14:43)

There's so much going on there. And philosophically, I mean, that's another one I need to call out, is there's, there are some other approaches that, and they're for kids, but it's the attitude of let your kids do whatever they want to do. We'll tell you if there's a problem.

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:59)

Mm-Hmm. ,

Bill Brady: (15:00)

You know, through alerts and notifications. And philosophically we would say NO, I don't want to know after the fact. If a predator is talking to my kid, I don't want to know after the fact if my kid is looking at inappropriate images. I don't want those things to happen . So philosophically

Hillary Wilkinson: (15:21)

I love that kind of philosophy of preventative injury. Yes. You know, for preventative efforts. Yes. So the other thing that I think was brilliant, um, at my, at my house, my kids did have some of those bridging devices that you talk about that are recognizably not mainstream devices, . Right. Which may be character builders….

Bill Brady: (15:52)

haha

Hillary Wilkinson: (15:53)

 And, if your mom's the healthy screen habits lady, you have no choice. . But, but the interesting thing you did with Troomi is that you paired with Samsung, and so these are Samsung devices. And I, I, maybe I, maybe I've just answered my own question, but what brought about, - why did you make that move?

Bill Brady: (16:14)

Uh, you, you definitely hit on one of them, and that's to reduce the, the resistance Mm-Hmm. Of, of a child who's getting a safe device, but they don't want to be singled out. Mm-Hmm. . And, you know, let's be honest, every kid, if they had their choice would say, I want an iPhone. That's just a fact. Uh, globally, however, Samsung is actually the biggest selling phone brand.

Hillary Wilkinson: (16:40)

Interesting.

Bill Brady: (16:41)

Here in the States, it's number two, behind iPhone. So it's no, we're not gonna be on iPhone because we can't create the safe environment with iOS. Mm-Hmm.

Hillary Wilkinson: (16:54)

Because

Bill Brady: (16:54)

IOS isn't open to developers, so it has to be Android. And if it's gonna be Android, then we're, you know, we use quality devices that kids are not embarrassed to use, you know? And they also, one of the big things for us too is camera quality. Uh, kids have to have good cameras. It's one of the things that's really important to them. So in, in one of the, one of the Samsung devices that we put our operating system on has a 50 megapixel camera. It's massive. And, uh, and that's something that kids love.

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:27)

Well, and I think that the camera opportunities really promote ways of, um, family time bonding, like, I mean, taking pictures and putting together slideshows, it's, and I mean, my kids are, my daughter especially, is continually showing me like, “oh, this picture would be better if you, you know, let the flowers come just to the forefront.”   You know, I mean, all these tips that I'm like, “Oh, wow, you're right!” 

Bill Brady: (17:56)

I've got a daughter exactly the same that's, uh, it sounds like they're cut from the same cloth.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:01)

Yeah. Yeah. . And another thing that I really like and appreciate about the Troomi website is this list of kid smart apps that you include on it. And can you talk about those and how they get vetted and

Bill Brady: (18:19)

Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:19)

What, what it entails?

Bill Brady: (18:22)

So there's no app store on the child's device. A a child can't be out browsing apps and, and saying, I want this, I want that rather. There's no app app store on the phone itself, but inside what we call the parent portal where parents manage their, their kids' streaming devices, uh, there's a, a section where you can activate what we call our collection of kids smart apps. And those are apps for, for school, spirituality, sports, healthy hobbies, music streaming services, if you choose to do that. And it's all a choice. Um, and those apps are requested by our community, and we keep track of the demand, so we know which apps are most in demand, and then we take them through a vetting process where, number one, we're making sure that there's no inappropriate content. Um, and you'd be surprised at how often seemingly innocuous apps are really dangerous on the backend.

Bill Brady: (19:27)

So we vet it for inappropriate content, and we vet it to make sure there are no backdoor channels for communication that you would not expect. I'll give you an example of that. My daughter, the photographer. She wants a graphic design app, and there's a fantastic, uh, app out there. It's a really fantastic app called Canva. But with, and we looked at putting Canva, making it available, but there's no way to turn off the, the sharing and collaboration feature with other Canva creators. And that could become a way that a predator says, “Oh, I like that picture that you made. Why don't we talk about it?” And one thing leads to another, and all of a sudden there's something going on that you're not happy with, uh, that's not safe. So we didn't, we did not approve it. Um, but those are, those are the main things that we're looking for in that vetting process.

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:29)

I think this is where, um, you as as a father of five, with kids whose ages kind of span this total group, you are uniquely qualified to have your finger on the pulse of what is wanted and meeting those needs right now.

Bill Brady: (20:55)

We really look to our community as well, and, uh, and keep track very closely of, of what apps are requested and how much, and we're, we're adding more utilitarian apps too. Like we were bumping into kids needing, for example, uh, apps that they use to do timekeeping at their part-time jobs, or, you know, we added Venmo where, you know, they're, uh, kids that that's something that kids use all the time. And, uh, so things, things like that, where, where, where you look at utilitarian things too.

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:36)

But I think it's appropriate 'cause it's kind of digital training wheels, you know?  I mean, it's it, as you step into the space of a fully loaded phone. So, yeah. Um, in every sort of parenting group that I've ever been involved with or anything like that, there's always some people who give me a response that I'm just wondering how, like, what would you respond to ? Or they give me the, there's some people that give, provide feedback to what I do, and I'm wondering what your response would be. They say, “We're okay, we've got everything on lockdown. None of the scary stuff is gonna hit my family.”  You know, the, the parents that feel as though their own tech acumen is going to protect their children. And I'm kind of wondering, what would your response be to those sorts of families?

Bill Brady: (22:44)

Wow. I, I hear people's stories every day, and I'll answer that question, but actually by sharing an experience that was really poignant for me, uh, when I was getting the company started, I reached out to an old colleague, uh, to get his help with something. And on the phone call, it was clear that he was becoming very emotional. And, and I, I'll call him Joe, and I said, “Joe, what's going on? Tell me what's going on.” And, and, uh, he was upset, and he said, “Where were you three years ago?” And, and I said, “Tell, tell me what happened.” And he said, “Because of,(in his case it was an iPhone.) We went from having the sweetest family life you can imagine, to a living hell in six months.”

Bill Brady: (23:37)

What had happened was his 12 year old was badgering and badgering and badgering for a phone. They finally got him, they did find a flip phone, and then he badgered and badgered and badgered for an iPhone. And for the, for his 13th birthday, they got him an iPhone. And my friend told me, within two weeks he was addicted to pornography. Within two months he was sexting back and forth with girls at school, sending terrible pictures. Uh, then he was contacted by a drug dealer on social media. Then he was using marijuana. And by the six month mark, he was dealing marijuana in the church parking lot during Sunday school. And that's when everything blew up. And they got the full picture of what was going on. And of course, I, you know, I, I empathized and, and, and was sensitive about it, but I knew him well enough that I, I was able to say, “Joe, why on earth did you not have the parental controls on that iPhone turned on?” And he said, “Bill, I thought I did.”

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:52)

Mm.

Bill Brady: (24:54)

And the, the, the unfortunate, the unfortunate situation is that, number one, some of those controls out there are so difficult to keep up on that you think they're in, they're working, but they're not. There's also workarounds. I had a 17 year old boy tell me that you can go into any high school and give the high school iPhone hacker your phone and a hundred bucks. And at the end of the day, you can do whatever you want, and your parents will have no clue.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:24)

For sure.

Bill Brady: (25:25)

And, uh, and that's the truth. So regardless of how tech savvy you really are, uh, the kids are always working to figure out, how do I get around this? And frankly, some of the native systems make it pretty easy.

Hillary Wilkinson: (25:43)

Yeah. Yeah. That's, um, that's a very compelling illustration and set of examples. And I, I too, I speak to parents who have suffered the ultimate loss, you know, because of stuff that's been accessed on technology. I'm grateful that you are creating this, you know, these platforms that parents hopefully can have a better sense of how to train their kids in this area. 

Bill Brady: (26:23)

Thank You. It's, it's, uh, it couldn't be more important. And it's something that every family in, in the United States is Well, and frankly, not just the United States, every family with kids is dealing with these questions right now.

Hillary Wilkinson: (26:35)

What's your primary driver for creating this sort of alternative tech for kids? Is it stories like this? 

Bill Brady: (26:51)

It's, it's the need. It's the recognition that we are in a mental health epidemic with our young people. Um, and it's become clear in the beginning it was, oh, is it correlation or causation? It's become very clear through the studies and the research that social media, for example, leads to deteriorated mental health for young people, especially girls. Uh, but the younger, you start with excessive screen time and social media, the more drastic those effects are. I read research recently that said 60% of the young people dealing with depression in the United States right now are not receiving treatment because we can't keep up with the demand. It takes 4, 5, 6 months to get into a pediatric psychiatrist because the system is overwhelmed.

Hillary Wilkinson: (27:49)

Yes.

Bill Brady: (27:49)

Because of all of the mental health issues stemming from technology. So if you're a parent, you have to give your kids a safer, regulated device to start out. It's the, it's the only way to do it and have any level of confidence that you're not inadvertently causing mental health problems.

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:15)

Yes, I agree. There's many factors that go into the mental health crisis. I, of course, because I'm in digital wellness, I completely agree with you. The other thing that I cannot encourage people enough to do is remove devices from the bedrooms at night. The sleep crisis

Bill Brady: (28:38)

Absolutely. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:39)

Yeah. I mean that, so when, when you're saying, did you, you know, this, this is, you know,  a major causal factor, I think it's, it's kind of these ancillary areas that people don't realize are also contributing to it, but the sleep deprivation is huge.

Bill Brady: (29:01)

Yeah. There's a book I would recommend, uh, to your listeners, um, by a doctor at San Diego State University, Dr. Jean Twenge. It's called iGen.

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:12)

Yes. 

Bill Brady: (29:13)

I'm not sure if you've, if you've read that or talked to Dr.Twenge before, but her research shows very, very clearly the effect of, uh, technology on, on, on Gen Z or iGen as she calls them. And, and she, that sleep factor is one of the ones that she, that she focuses on as one of the, the ancillary, uh, aspects of it. Fantastic book that every parent should read.

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:42)

I agree. We have it in our Amazon marketplace, but I'll also list it in the links in our show notes. So we have to take a short break, but when we come back, I am going to ask Bill Brady for his healthy screen habit.

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Hillary Wilkinson: (30:00)

I'm speaking with Bill Brady, founder and CEO of Troomi. On every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. So, bill, this is a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one?

Bill Brady: (30:26)

I do. Uh, and I touched on a little bit of it, uh, earlier, but it's this notion of be absolutely intentional both in the way you introduce technology to kids, specifically phones, uh, , and frankly, intentional in the way you model a healthy relationship with a phone. Make sure that the, that that device is, is meeting a need, that it's, it's a tool that does not become a tyrant. Um, as families, I think there are things that, that we can do to help encourage that with our kids. Number one, it's only giving them age appropriate solutions that we don't, we don't just say, here's the phone. Now, your whole life is gonna happen virtually . Right? We can't do that. At the same time as parents, we've got to be intentional about separating the phone from family time, separating the phone from the face-to-face interactions. And we've all done it, you know? Mm-Hmm. where we're on a device and our, our a child is saying, mom, dad, let me tell you, hold on a second, just, just gimme a second, gimme a second. And we look up from the phone and all of a sudden our child is gone. And what a tragedy. They've inadvertently felt like, wow, whatever mom or dad is doing is more important than I am. And they've inadvertently learned, huh, I guess devices are more important than people.

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:56)

Right.

Bill Brady: (31:57)

And we didn't, we didn't mean to set that example, but we did. So it's, it's this idea of intentionalism in the way we introduce tech to our kids, and frankly, in the way we use it ourselves.

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:08)

Even if we can train ourselves to, to narrate what we're doing, that's what I, if I'm not at a point where I, I can be interrupted, I, I will say, just a minute, I'm texting Nana about, you know, Sunday's, Sunday's lunch, and what, yeah. You know, something like that. Just, just somehow that response is better than, wait a minute. It's like, you know, it, it opens, it opens a window into what you're doing so they can see that you're actually using it as a tool as well, and not blowing them off for, I don't know, one more, you know, scroll feed or something like that.

Bill Brady: (33:13)

Not, not doom scrolling as my wife calls it.

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:16)

. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And,

Bill Brady: (33:18)

And in that moment, even better, you know, to Yes, explain what you're doing, and even better consciously turn your phone over and make eye contact and connect with them, even if it's for 10 seconds. And explain and, and, and just kind of set the expectation for getting, you know, continuing the conversation.

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:39)

Thank you. I, uh, I, I'm going to add that to my repertoire, not just , not just tell them what I'm doing, but I'm gonna do that. Make sure that I've got eye contact. That's really important. Thank you. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show and a link to any of the resources discussed by visiting the show notes for this episode. You can do this by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and scroll to find this episode. Now, if you are so compelled and convinced that Troomi is the, the way that your family needs to turn, which we hope. You can get $50 off the purchase of your new Troomi phone by going to Troomi and entering the affiliate code, HSHabits and Bill will hook you up. Thank you so much for all that you have done. I, too feel like the friend of yours that was like, oh, where were you three years ago? Because we've kind of stumbled and fumbled along our path. My kids are a little bit older now, and we're, uh, we continue to stumble on our path, but I feel like you're offering such a great bridge, and thank you so much for all that you do.

Bill Brady: (35:04)

Thank you, Hillary. Wonderful to, to be with you.