For more info:

info@thesecuredad.com

The Secure Dad's Guide to the Dark Web: link

Home Security: The Secure Dad's Guide: Easy Home Defense Techniques to Keep Your Family Safe, by Andy Murphy: Amazon link

Hillary Wilkinson (00:42):

When I get started getting ready for an episode, I like to take this sort of deep dive into the background of my guests, and here's where it got pretty interesting getting ready for today. He's kind of an ordinary guy. He's not a member of law enforcement or the military.  Yet he's made family protection, the study of his life. So you could say he fights crime, and most pictures I find of him seem to be like in this bricked in  area, like a cave or a lair. So do you see where I'm going here? I think I've cracked the code. I may have invited today to come along and talk to a real live superhero. He is not Batman or Spider-Man. He's the Secure Dad! So this Secure Dad is going to teach us all, teach about protecting the ones we love and so much more. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Secure Dad, Andy Murphy!

Andy Murphy (01:44):

Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here, Hillary. That is quite the introduction. I'm, I'm not a superhero that I'm at least going to admit on this podcast, so you know, oh,

Hillary Wilkinson (01:56):

See, just to let you know, he's not going to admit. See, I dunno. I'm

Andy Murphy (01:59):

Not gonna admit it. I'm not gonna deny it, but I'm not going to admit it either. He

Hillary Wilkinson (02:03):

May or may not be wearing a cape as we speak. Okay.

Andy Murphy (02:06):

<Laugh>.

Hillary Wilkinson (02:07):

So, Andy, I love an origin story. I know you're a dad, clearly you're an entrepreneur and have this amazing platform to help families, but I'd like to know your backstory. Sure. How did you get into safety and what brought you to create the, your, your whole business of the Secure Dad?

Andy Murphy (02:28):

Sure. Well, you kind of touched on it a little bit in your introduction. I'm not a member of law enforcement. I'm not a member of the military, and a lot of people think that that completely disqualifies,  me from being able to take care of my family. And I'm like, no, no. Hold up, hold up. That's not what we're saying at all here. It's every mom and dad's job to protect their family. That's, that's what we do. That's what humanity has done from the beginning. We ensure that the next generation goes on. Don't just take your safety and outsource it to someone else. That's not what we should do. We should take responsibility for it. Just like when we talk about taking responsibility for the devices that we bring into our house, we have to also be responsible for all of these other areas of our children's wellbeing.

Andy Murphy (03:15):

So that's where the Secure Dad comes from. It's from taking, you know, really ownership of your safety. I tell people all the time that our safety is our own responsibility. And guess what? Police officers will tell you that exact same thing. They want you to take responsibility for your safety so that they can focus on the other calls, all the other hundreds of calls that they have to go and do. So they, we really need, you know, a group of parents who are out there being protectors who are raising the next generation of protectors so that we don't raise victims.

Hillary Wilkinson (03:48):

I love it. I, I, yeah, I, I agree. And having, having attended enough, like Citizens Emergency Response Team meetings, <laugh>, I, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Every, you know, police officer or anybody who's in a first responder position encourages you to be your first line of defense. So I agree with you completely. 

Andy Murphy (04:12):

Yep.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:13):

So one of the things that gets a lot of airtime kind of in this pocket of the world that I navigate in Healthy Screen Habits mm-hmm. <Affirmative> is the fear that parents have about online predators and cyber harm. Sure, sure. I don't like to perpetuate fear. I don't think we operate in, in a place of calm intention out if, when we're operating in fear. Right. So, I prefer to do what I feel like you do, which is provide tools and information so that people can be informed, but operate from a place of empowerment.

Andy Murphy (04:47):

Right. 

Hillary Wilkinson (04:48):

So my question to you, which is, I feel like, you know, I'm asking you to crack the code here on everything, but what do we as tech users need to know? What do you feel, since you're in this like, niche of safety, what do we as tech users need to know about keeping our kids safe online?

Andy Murphy (05:12):

Sure. That's a big question. It's, that's a, that's a really big question, but I think it goes back to responsibility as parents. You know, when we hand our child a device, whether it's their, their school issued laptop, or if it's a phone, your iPad, whatever it is, you're responsible for what appears on that screen, and you're responsible for the person that uses it. And so we have to impart good safety habits to our children. Otherwise, you know, the, the, you know, I'm sure that you've talked about this a bunch on your show, how the, the, the child's brain is just not developed enough to make such smart decisions that it needs to make. Honestly, I mean, there are people in their twenties who are having a hard time making good decisions on social media and online. So when you hand a nine-year-old an iPad, it, it, it's not a, it's not a good recipe.

Andy Murphy (06:02):

So really with what parents, we need to become educated on what the real threats are. You know, of course the big thing that was in the news earlier this year was the fact that, you know, there was these AI voice cloning scams where, you know, you're gonna get a call, that it's gonna be your child, that you know it's gonna be their voice. And, and it, it's really not. We're, it's, that's just kind of how the scam works. It's not really AI voice cloning, like everybody thought that it was. So let's have a healthy understanding of what the real threats are. Unfortunately, there are people out there who mean children harm. We don't like these people. These people operate all around us. We, there are our neighbors. There are people who, you know, go to school with us who are in our community, and they're going to use their online abilities to be able to pretend to be kids, to talk to kids.

Andy Murphy (06:55):

And so, while that's really hard for a nine-year-old to understand, you can set the boundaries in your home that you say, Hey, we're never going to share what our real name is. We're never going to share where we live. We don't take pictures and send it to other people. And if somebody asks you questions that make you feel uncomfortable, you come and find me as your parent as fast as possible, and we will take care of this problem. So that's really is teaching your kids to take care of themselves in this sort of realm is really gonna go a long way to building their confidence and also make them a harder target for somebody who means them harm.

Hillary Wilkinson (07:37):

Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I, I I like I like the instructing your kids, but also I think it's really valid what you're talking about, where recognizing it sounds like, like, you know, it's kind of like when we were growing up, we got all the Stranger Danger talks and the Yes. You know, all of that stuff mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but somehow we kind of hopscotched over that in this internet realm. And now I think it's taking a bit of a mental shift for us, you know, us digital immigrants as we're like, you know, clawing our way to try and catch up to <laugh> the digital natives that we're raising, right? Yes,

Andy Murphy (08:19):

Yes. That is true.

Hillary Wilkinson (08:20):

But, but recognizing that the internet is a place, it's, yeah. I mean, yes. So, so when we allow our kids onto the internet, it's analogous to taking them to a, you know mm-hmm. <Affirmative> a very busy street corner in the middle of a major metropolitan area and dropping them off. And I think if we can put a lens on like that, all of a sudden it becomes, oh, like, mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, my gosh, my kid doesn't even know how to cross the street without holding my hand. I definitely need to instruct him how to behave in that, you know, virtual street corner.

Andy Murphy (09:01):

Right. There's this false sense of security that a lot of people have that say, oh, nobody can physically get to my kid through an iPad. So they've got to be okay. Well, somebody actually, I just did a podcast on my show of all about how kidnapping works today. Mm-Hmm. And most kidnapping is actually initiated online when these, these predators will create these fake relationships. And it's just like, oh, hey, I'm actually gonna be in your town. Let's meet at this park. And it's like, of course I wanna go meet my internet friend. I know this park. I can walk there from my house and well, that's all a preselected thing.

Hillary Wilkinson (09:39):

Right. I've been playing with them online, so they feel as though, yeah.

Andy Murphy (09:44):

Right. And that's a big issue that I have. And I don't think it's intentional, like with you know, the games like Fortnite and Minecraft and all of that, our, our digital contacts are called friends, and they're not friends, they're just digital contacts. Oh my gosh. And so when kids are learning what a friend is, well, a friend to me and to you was somebody we went to school with or somebody we went to church with, somebody we actually physically could see and talk to, whereas you are limited in interactions by whatever gaming platform you're on. And so this person is my friend, they sent me, you know, this really cool item through the game, so they're really totally my friend because they're giving me gifts and things like that. And, and that's just the part of the grooming process that kids don't understand, because the word friend to mom and dad means one thing, but friend to a digital native means something completely different.

Hillary Wilkinson (10:38):

And I think it's also, you talked earlier about like the, you know, the developmental mm-hmm. Process of our, of as, as humans, as our brain develops. I think often what we're forgetting is our kids are so literal that if, if that person is called a friend online, they are, they are, you know, in their mind being filed in that same category. Sure. Yeah. I have never made that leap before, so thank you, Andy. I have never, I have never, like, thought of how important that labeling process in, and it's almost one of those things that I feel like in legislation we should ask for a different, a different name. It should be moved. I could see that should be moved. Yeah. It should be moved to contacts rather than friend, because I, I agree with you completely. We are setting our kids up for, for misunderstanding.

Hillary Wilkinson (11:44):

Right. And innocent, you know, betrayal by their quote unquote friends, so mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I, yeah, really, really, really good point. If we, if we shift our vocabulary as parents, regardless of what they're reading on, on their own screens mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but yeah. Okay. So next we're gonna take a break, but afterwards, let's talk about the dark web. So here I said, I don't want to come from a place of fear, but I gotta tell you, I'm kind of creeped out about this. So let's come back after this. 

—-Ad —---Bark—---

Hillary Wilkinson (12:52):

I'm speaking with Andy Murphy, the host of the Secure Dad podcast, and founder of Secure Dad, a company whose mission is to help families live safe, happier lives. So this sounds wonderful. Safe and happy

Andy Murphy (13:53):

<Laugh>. Right? Well, you know, just like you, it's like the childhood.

Hillary Wilkinson (13:55):

Oh yeah. It's the childhood ideal. Right?

Andy Murphy (13:58):

Right. Like, I don't, I don't wanna, you know, self fear. That's not what I do. I want to empower families, you know, that's this, that's what I want you, I want everybody to live a safe, happy life. I really, truly do.

Hillary Wilkinson (14:08):

Yeah. Yeah. And I like how you go about doing it is through education, because mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I, I'm a former educator and I truly believe that education saves lives. I mean, sure. Yeah. You can, you cannot convince me otherwise. <Laugh> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So, so I appreciate you as a safety educator. So to keep families safe and happy, we need to talk about some areas in our digital lives that are a little less glowy, <laugh> happy. So, let's talk about the dark web. This is a all new topic on healthy screen habits. Okay. I feel like,

Andy Murphy (14:49):

Okay. I know,

Hillary Wilkinson (14:49):

I know. So hold my hand as we jump in here <laugh>. Sure.

Andy Murphy (14:53):

Yeah. I just, how, how, how, how deep do you wanna go here? Oh, <laugh>.

Hillary Wilkinson (14:58):

I don't know. <Laugh>. Okay. So I feel like it's this place that once you step inside, like all light drains from your body. You spend the rest of your life with phantoms and pirates. So <laugh> like, that's, that's my envisioning of the dark web. And I have to tell you, my son was, I was prepping for this episode and my son was totally making fun of me. 'cause I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna ask him about the dark web. I'm like, I don't know. I go, I go. And then my computer started freaking out when, when, because we tried to record before, and I'm like, we did.

Andy Murphy (15:29):

Oh, do. Oh

Hillary Wilkinson (15:30):

Yeah. Do you think it's because I was and everything? And he was like no. He's like, I don't think that's how you access the dark web.

Andy Murphy (15:38):

<Laugh>. Right, right. Okay. Well, let's, let's start there. Let's talk about accessing the dark web. Okay. You can't, you can't do it just naturally from your Android or iPhone. You can't do it right from your normal computer. You need something, a special browser called the TOR browser, t o r. And that's how you access the dark web. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So it's not like your kid can just, you know, open up Safari on an iPad and go right to the dark web. That's, that's not how it works. Oh. The dark web is, its its own network. There are actually layers of the internet. Most of us spend the time at the surface internet. That's where we check for recipes and the weather and sports scores and all that sort of stuff. And social media, that's all on the surface level, down towards the bottom kind of the basement of the internet.

Andy Murphy (16:29):

That is the dark web. That's where you're gonna find some unsavory stuff, but also some surprising things as well. So in the dark web, you can find everything from human trafficking to organ trafficking, drugs, all sorts of unspeakable images and chat rooms and videos of prison fights, people dying, things like that. Just really just really the, the worst parts of humanity are down there. But also the dark web has a very interesting side to it. And that is the, the last time that I, I, I researched all of this, the New York Times actually has a website on the dark web, because there are countries that sensor the surface internet. So the only way that people, say in China can find out what's going on in the world is to actually access it through the dark web, is through that TOR browser.

Andy Murphy (17:29):

So they can see news from other parts of the world. They can get other perspectives that way they can communicate with their friends and family in other parts of the world where they can't through the surface web. So not everything in the dark web is, you know ghosts and pirates, like you said. But there, there is a lot of that. But there's some things that are actually good down there. There's the freedom of speech lives down there, but also, I'll, I'll say this, I think about 40% of the dark web now is law enforcement. It's they're setting traps for people and they're, they're monitoring what's going on in those chats and in those rooms as well. So it's not completely lawless either. You can't just go down there and do whatever you want. There will be consequences. So it's, it's a very it's, it's a dark and deep basement. Really.

Hillary Wilkinson (18:21):

Okay. Interesting. I did not know that about mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. I only knew about the big scary sensational type stuff. Right. I didn't know about the, you know, it being used for other purposes of global communication and mm-hmm. <Affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> makes sense. So you mentioned that you need a certain browser

Andy Murphy (18:46):

Yes.

Hillary Wilkinson (18:46):

Knowing that some of the families who follow healthy screen habits have kids that are all the way up in through, you know, teens mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, I mean, you, so I'm gonna ask two questions. Sure. One is, what should we do if we find that our later in teens child mm-hmm. <Affirmative> maybe has the TOR browser downloaded on their device, and two, like, so that we don't come from just this place of reactivity. Like how mm-hmm. <Affirmative> do you suggest we what? Sure. What do you

Andy Murphy (19:23):

Think we should do? So what do you do? Yeah, sure. Well, if you find the TOR browser, which stands for the Onion Router, by the way, in case you're wondering what TOR, actually, I know <laugh> completely random. So what I would suggest that you do is you talk with your, with your child about it, chances of you being able to access that browser and seeing what they're doing are slim. 'cause Most of them will burn their, the history cookies or what is typically we would consider cookies. All that tracking information isn't collected down there. Or if it is collected, it's burned when you get out of it. So most likely, if your, if your teenager is on the dark web, they're probably just getting pirated software and things like that. People can actually buy fake IDs down there. You can buy identities, credit cards, those sorts of things.

Andy Murphy (20:17):

So it's not necessarily that your kid is a part of some human trafficking ring. It could just be they're trying to get ahold of a credit card to buy something that they don't want traced back to them, and they don't want you knowing about. Which would kind of, I guess, be kind of like going through mom's purse and getting the credit card number, that level of stuff which teenagers have been doing for, you know, decades. So I would really talk to them and be upfront about like, Hey, I see you've got this browser here on your computer. We may not have talked about this as a family, but this is unacceptable. So there's gonna be a consequence for that. But right now what I need to understand is what have you done here? And what is it that as a family we need to do going forward?

Andy Murphy (21:04):

Find out where they've been, find out what they've done, don't scream, don't yell. Just have that calm conversation. Because I think the worst thing that a lot of listeners are, are, are thinking at this point is, what if my child has uploaded naked pictures of themselves and sent it to someone else? Well, that can happen on the surface web. That can unfortunately happen in a lot of apps. So don't automatically just jump to that point. Don't jump to that worst case scenario. Just see where they're at, see what they're doing. And try to just have that conversation about what is it they were trying to do? Did they find it? 'cause You may find out that the kid downloaded it on a dare. They were absolutely afraid and never have actually used it. So it, it really can run the gamut. But yeah, just, just have that open conversation about what they've seen and what they've done. I will say that I would consider a household ban on that browser, simply because if law enforcement ever takes your computer or gets ahold of it and they see that browser, they're gonna go through it through you and your family with a whole lot more scrutiny. So while it's not illegal to have it, it is a red flag for law enforcement.

Hillary Wilkinson (22:19):

Okay. That there's so many good points there. Yeah. And I think, I think that conversation starting is is just I think that answers the second part of my question of like, what do, how do we, how do we address talking Sure. With our kids? So Andy, I know on your website you have a resource that mm-hmm. <Affirmative> can help parents who maybe are in this situation or want to get informed before they find themselves in this situation. Can you maybe tell us where that is and I'll link it in the show notes?

Andy Murphy (23:00):

Absolutely. I have created a completely free guide called The Dark Web for Parents. And it will actually go through a much deeper dive of all the levels of the internet, what can be found down there, what you can do, how things are done. You can download that for absolutely free. If you go to the secure dad.com/darkweb, darkweb is all one word, and you'll, you can just put in your email address and I will email it right to you. Okay. So it's yours completely free.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:28):

Thank you for that. And so now, because I've just, you know, here, I said I didn't want to come from a fear-based platform, and I'm just gonna throw all the anxiety at our listeners today, <laugh>. Sure, sure. Let's talk about kidnapping <laugh>. Earlier, you recently dropped an episode on the Secure Dad podcast about ai, voice cloning, virtual kidnappings. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And can you explain what these are? Because there may, there might be people that are like, oh my gosh, this is the first time I've ever hearing about this, but mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, so when they hear about it, can you just talk about what, what are these?

Andy Murphy (24:07):

Sure. So the, there is a perception of what's going on, and then there's the reality of what's going on. What's really happening is something that's been established and been around for a while. It's called a virtual kidnapping. And that is when somebody will call you from an unknown number and say you'll hear a voice of, let's say you have a, you know, 12 year old daughter. You'll hear a 12 year old girl say, you know, mama, come help me. I messed up. I'm so sorry I messed up. Please help. And then that voice will go away, and you will have usually a male voice say, Hey, everything's fine. Your daughter's okay, but in order to get her back, we're gonna need X amount of dollars or Bitcoin, something like that. Sometimes it's a face-to-face exchange. So these virtual kidnappings really just seek to scam you because you think, oh, you heard that panic voice.

Andy Murphy (24:58):

You absolutely know that that is your child on the other end of the phone when your kid's actually just upstairs in their room, but you forget that, and that, and that panic of what's going on. And there's been a lot of ss news stories where these parents, you know, they have that fear, that fear spike occurs. The the brain's amygdala gets hijacked and goes into overdrive and they realize, no, wait a minute, my daughter's just upstairs in her room. She hasn't gone anywhere today. You know, that sort of thing. So what scammers will do is they'll just take their chances maybe they will follow your kid on social media. They'll kind of be able to weave a little bit more of a story and say, oh, I was on my way to cheer practice and our car broke down and this man got me, you know, please help me.

Andy Murphy (25:41):

That sort of thing. So that makes it sound just a little bit more, and it's all a scam to try to take, you know, your money from you. They want you to pay a fake ransom with real money. That's kind of what's going on. Now, the perception was that because people kind of forgot how the human brain works, that people were going to YouTube and to TikTok and getting samples of your voice and creating your real voice in a clone form so that they could play back a conversation using AI in real time, that really made you think that you were talking to that person. That has happened. That is, that has happened before, but it has usually been really big heists that have done that sort of thing. People who've developed a lot of time to try to get a lot of money from a big corporation by pretending to be like the C e O or something like that.

Andy Murphy (26:37):

So that does happen, and unfortunately, it's probably going to happen a whole lot more. Right. There's actually an app you can get right now on your, your iPhone. It is, it's a product that's been around since 2005. It's called Spoof Card. And what Spoof Card does is that you program a number that you want to appear on that person's caller id, you control that. So you call that person, they don't know that it's you, that it's calling, that fake number shows up on caller id. You can make it your kid's school, or you can make it, you know, your local F B I field office, whatever number you want will pop up on their thing. And so then you can have the conversation and they will actually mask your voice. You can choose a male voice, or you can choose a female voice.

Andy Murphy (27:27):

And it will kind of, you know, take control of that. Other people can use other softwares. There's actually some really advanced stuff out there right now. There's a company that actually Pat Flynn from his podcast has actually used, and he did a full demonstration of it. I cannot remember the name of it right now, but he read a script for about 45 minutes, and this computer pretty much learned his voice. Oh. And it was his inflection, and it was his timing, and it was, it was really strange. Now, if you listen to it for long enough, you could realize, oh wait, this is, this is fake. But the technology is getting there that people will one day be able to grab episodes of the secured ad podcast, dump my voice into whatever, and then use it, clone it to do whatever they want to with it.

Andy Murphy (28:17):

Right. I, you know, I actually foresee that maybe businesses and corporations will take all of their user content and be able to create voices from, you know, just random average people because that was in the terms of service that you signed up for. But that's just my guess of how things are going to go. So what you can do in those situations, if somebody does call and you want to identify the person on the other end of the phone, you establish a code word with your children. It's the same code word that, you know you used back in the eighties to identify a safe person to a child. My parents, actually, we had a code word, and it was used one time when somebody from my church picked me up from school. So it works. So you ask somebody for that predetermined code word, which could be something as simple as the word “pancakes”.

Andy Murphy (29:08):

If you fail to come up with a code word before an emergency occurs, you can always ask, Hey, what's a nickname for the dog? Because we all know that a dog has its real name and then like 15 different nicknames for it. So you can ask your child, what's one of the nickname or the, the child on the other end of the phone, what's one of the nicknames of the dog that should be information that they know that's not readily available online, that they can look up real fast. So you're just trying to verify that yes, that is your child, because that's gonna determine what you do next, next, whether or not you hang up and go confirm your kid's. Okay. Then you call the cops, or then you call the police to say, Hey, something's really going on with my child. I need that, my child located. That sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (29:52):

Yeah. I like, I like how you have the, the plan for the, the family who has pre-planned this event. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and the plan for those of us who need a, need an utoh, card <laugh> Yeah. Of that. Yeah. That maybe, that maybe I, I like and I think, I think a good thing to, if, if you're thinking, oh gosh, we don't have a dog, you know, maybe just, right. Think about the security questions that get asked mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to like, help you, help you recall passwords. Like, what was right, what

Andy Murphy (30:20):

Was the name? That's a great idea.

Hillary Wilkinson (30:21):

Name. What was the name of your preschool? What was the name of mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, the first house, the street that we first lived on or whatever. No, really, really great tips. Thank you. Okay. When we come back, I'm going to ask Andy for his healthy screen Habit. 

—-------Ad: Gabb Wireless—---

Hillary Wilkinson (31:41):

We are back. I'm talking with Andy Murphy, host of the Secure Dad podcast and Amazon bestselling author of the book, Home Security: the Secure Dad's Guide, which has helped thousands of people around the world create safe, happy homes. Andy, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. I feel like you've already given us several to be very honest with you. However, I'm gonna put you on the spot one more time. <Laugh>. So do you have please, a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home?

Andy Murphy (32:21):

Absolutely. And thank you for the opportunity to be able to give you one, one that I have in my household is, is this. When you hand your child a smart device, when you hand it to 'em, it's a window to the world where they can see so many things that are good and so many things that are bad, but also just like a window you can see out. But the world can also see back in. So you really have to keep, be mindful of when you hand your child a device and how you tell them to use it. Because yeah, they can see everything and they can control a lot of stuff, but also other people can see in and see your child and make contact with them in your house where you may not expect it.

Hillary Wilkinson (33:02):

Hmm. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show and a link to the Secure Dad, as well as that PDF that he recommends us all reading about the Dark Web by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and scroll down to find this episode. Andy, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and all the things that you do to keep families both happy and safe. I'm happy you're just having talked to you,

Andy Murphy (33:36):

<Laugh>. Well, thank you, Hillary. I appreciate the opportunity to be here to talk with you. I feel like we are very like-minded. I feel like the Healthy Screen Habits podcast fits right along with the mission of the Secure Dad. So this has been amazing. Thank you so much for what you're doing.