ADHD Coaches Organization

https://www.adhdcoaches.org

Adela’s website:

https://www.mind-coach.com

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:03)

With 10 years of coaching experience and fluency in five languages, my guest today brings global perspective to her practice serving clients around the world from her base in New Orleans. As vice president of the ADHD Coaches Association and a mentor for the Professional Association of ADHD Coaches, her expertise is grounded in rigorous training in neuroscience, psychology, and advanced coaching techniques. She's the total package. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Adela Baker.

Adela Baker: (00:44)

Thank you. It is great to be here. This is a topic I love,

Hillary Wilkinson: (00:49)

 Excellent. Adela, I understand that the world, sort of, of ADHD is one that's kind of particularly close to your heart, and mm-hmm . How did you find your passion?

Adela Baker: (01:05)

Um, my son was, uh, diagnosed with ADHD when he was around six years old, and I came to understand what this meant. He has a, a, you know, race, car brain with tricycle brakes. And I came to understand, wow, this is genetic. This is how so many of my family's brain works, um, and my brain too, and in different ways, and there's so many flavors of ADHD. And, um, I, I just became committed to, if I'm gonna help my son, I might as well help other people. At the time, there, there was no other coach in the entire Gulf South, ADHD coach. So I saw an opportunity there and, um, pivoted in my career for the training required and became a credentialed ADHD coach.

Hillary Wilkinson: (02:01)

There is nothing like a, um, mom to totally go well, thought we were going this way. Actually, no, going and completely commit your life to something different for the sake of your child. So, I, I understand that completely and I, I respect and admire that . So, let's jump into screen habits since we're here. Mm-hmm . Um, you know, we have many families who come to us who are struggling with children who ha maybe have an ADHD brain and are having a difficult time setting up parameters around screen time, the refrain that we hear is they're incapable of controlling themself. And so why does screen time feel so different for the ADHD brain?

Adela Baker: (02:59)

Yeah. So, first of all, let's understand, I'm gonna backtrack, explain a little bit about ADHD and how it works. So, first of all, attention deficit hyperactive disorder is, in my opinion, a horrible name because we, it's not that there is a deficit of attention, we can pay attention like nobody's business if we are interested in the topic, right? There's, this is something called hyper-focus, which could be a superpower, right? So when you see your kid is hyper-focused on that video game, that's his ADHD at work, right? It's hyper-focused on something that they are really, really interested in. Um, hyperactive. It could be hyperactive mind, it could be hyperactive body, it could be hyperactive emotions, right? Some people describe ADHD as the inability to self-regulate, right? We struggle with regulating our thoughts, our actions, our emotions. Um, is it a disorder? Is it more of a maybe a condition or, um, or an impairment?

Adela Baker: (04:09)

You know, I, I think it's like being left-handed or being nearsighted. Like, oh, okay, I can't see. I'm struggling with seeing, well, if I tell, you know, my best friend, well just squint harder. You'll be able to see, well, that's, that's not realistic. That's not a very kind way of addressing it. You'd find out, well, oh, you have wonky-shaped eyeballs. How are they shaped? What is, what is your unique eyeball shape? And what is the accommodation there? Right? So, what is your unique ADHD look like? And then, you know, like with glasses, do I need contacts? LASIK, glasses? What suits your lifestyle? What accommodation is going to suit your lifestyle for your flavor of ADHD? And that's in coaching. That's what we help our clients figure out. Um, so this, what's happening is that there's, you know, this is, it's related to neurotransmitters.

Adela Baker: (05:05)

The brain is, is hungry for dopamine, um, and in front of a digital device, it's getting a nice steady stream of dopamine. You know, like I, I think of the, you know, Pacman chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp. This is so delicious. It feels great. Not only does it feel great, it's like a relief for the ADHD brain, right? And so, of course, we're not saying, “well give your kid all the screen time they want for that relief”, but that's in their brain. That's, that is what is happening, right? Mm-hmm . So the, that brain does not have executive function skills on demand. It does have executive function skills. Um, and when I'm talking executive function skills that sustain attention, time management, working, memory planning, prioritizing, um, it's intrinsic motivation, right? Not secondhand motivation. That's a big one. It's, um, and it's that self-regulation, that emotional regulation piece. So not every ADHD brain is gonna struggle with all of these executive function skills. They're, they're there just not always on demand, right? Mm-hmm. If mom says, come on, let's go. That's, that's hard for an ADHD brain. Now, if the ADHD brain says, " Oh, I want to get up and go”, now, it's easy. Mm-hmm . ADHD brain does not do well with that secondhand interest. Right?

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:40)

So secondhand interest meaning like an extrinsic motivator 

Adela Baker: (06:46)

Yes. Like if mom tells me to do it, or if the government tells me to do it, or if, um, something else tells me to do it. If it's not my idea. ADHD brain is almost like, like, you know, I like to think of James Dean with a black leather jacket smoking a cigarette, saying, “I don't wanna do that. I'm gonna do it my way.” Mm-hmm . And you know what? That brain is, right? Right. What is your way of doing it? Um, and as parents, how can we help our child articulate, well, how do you wanna take control of your screen time so that it's on their terms? 

Hillary Wilkinson: (07:24)

You've done a great job of like explaining how this hyperfocus kind of comes into play, and, um, I think a lot of people or parents say, like, my child struggles with focusing on anything until they're in front of a screen and they feel as though they're kind of almost building a focus muscle, if you will. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm . Can you talk about that a little bit? , I see you shaking your head, . Yes,

Adela Baker: (08:02)

Yes, yes. So, okay. First of all, all these executive function skills are housed in the prefrontal cortex. Mm-hmm . The prefrontal cortex is not fully developed until sometimes like 25 to 28 years old in males. And these are the neurotypicals mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . An ADHD brain has a three to five year lag, right? So already ADHD or no, ADHD, those executive function skills are in the state of being are they're being developed and they're developing at different rates. It is very hard for someone who their brain is literally not yet developed for them to have that regulation. When they are on their screens, they're getting this slow, steady stream of dopamine, and that's, that is making them, that is stimulating the brain to help it focus.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:14)

But it's not,

Adela Baker: (09:16)

It's not training it,

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:18)

It's not building resilient or building, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adela Baker: (09:21)

No. Okay. No, it's, it's not at all. Um, what we can help our kids do is, um, and I I even do this with adults, is help them identify what I call a Dopa-menu. 

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:37)

Same more. I wanna hear about that . Yes. Yes.

Adela Baker: (09:41)

So it's like, okay, if your kid is like eating candy, you take candy away from a baby or a child, it's going to complain. Right? Suddenly you are asking for a temper tantrum. Same thing with screens. If you replace that candy with a toy, okay, now there's an immediate distraction, and the child is appeased with the attention we want together collaboratively with the child to identify, well, what are these other activities that might give you these? Like, it's not just dopamine, it's also, it's it's serotonin. It's oxytocin. Like, what is it that you need at that moment? Do you need, um, novelty, ADHD Brains thrive on novelty and challenge something new, and just the right amount of challenge. If it's too hard, they give up. And if it's too easy, it's too boring. And we also thrive on connection. So what is it that is missing and what might replace the screen time to offer what they need? Now, again, ADHD brain doesn't wanna be told what to do, it's mom can't come up with a plan. It's collaborative. What are some things that you can do? What do you want to do when you come off the screen?

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:11)

So

Adela Baker: (11:12)

What do you think that Right.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:13)

Developing beforehand

Adela Baker: (11:15)

Agency. Absolutely.

Hillary Wilkinson: (11:16)

Okay. Okay. Agency absolutely is such a hot word right now. It's just, it, it keeps coming up again and again, particularly in, in response to like AI and, and the AI technologies mm-hmm . And everybody's saying like, this is how we retain our humanity, is to exercise agency and know the importance of having it. So I, I love that you're talking about that with people with ADHD brains needing, like, like, you know, they're, they're masters at exercising agency, we have a lot to learn, right? ,

Adela Baker: (11:54)

The beauty of ADHD is that they're, you know, extremely creative brain. Mm-hmm . So mom's idea might not be as good as their own idea, and that's okay. Right? And that's, I find that's the hardest piece, or one of the hardest pieces in working with parents is that we think we know the best way, or the book says, this is the best way, so this is the best way for you. That's not necessarily true. Mm-hmm . Right? Every, you know, your child might know the best way. 

Adela Baker: (12:27)

I just thought of a funny, funny example. So this was also when my kid was very young. He had to take a certain pill. I don't know if it was a supplement, I don't remember what it was even. And it was a big, round purple pill. And I said, you know, it doesn't matter how you do it as long as you take it, right? So we have an a, a shared objective. A shared objective is that you feel good and you have to take the pill, but I'm gonna let you do it any way you want. Well, he set that pill on its side and rolled it down the table, and then got down to his knees, opened his mouth, and the pill dropped in it.

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:01)

It was Rube Goldberg pill-taking.

Adela Baker: (13:04)

Yes. And that was his method, and that was fun. And it was on his terms, his, so as parents, how can we collaborate with our children so that they can come up with their own system that is pleasing to them so that they can manage their screen time. Mm-hmm

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:23)

When you talk about this DOPA menu, would you have a list of choices or would you storyboard it ideally before they got on their device? Or like, how, what does that look like?

Adela Baker: (13:46)

Yeah, yeah. So, um, again, I'm using my son as an example. He's, um, he's 17 now. Um, so fishing, he goes out fishing to the bayou, right? That is an example of something that he loves to do that he does not need his screen for mm-hmm. Right? Or going out on a skateboard, that is something that he enjoys that does not require screen time. Um, or meeting up with friends, right? So what are the things that are going to light him up? Um, and that's, that's an easy question. It's like, you know, when was the last time that you were laughing? When was the last time that you were having a great time? And what were you doing then? So we're identifying the times that they do experience this joy. They are experiencing this, this, you know, dopamine, serotonin, all these wonderful neurochemicals, these juicy things that are just lighting up their brain, and so that they can identify, oh, these are other sources of it. It's not only the screen that is, has the capability of providing that to me. Mm-hmm

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:56)

Kind of exploring that. Yeah. Mm-hmm . So when we come back, I am going to ask Adella a few more things specific to ADHD and managing screen time.

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Ad Break: HSH Parent/Mom’s Night

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Hillary Wilkinson: 

I'm speaking with Adela Baker, an ADHD coach whose vision is a world where everyone can focus on their dreams, focus. It's something that is so hard to do without deep intention, right? In today's distraction-filled world, and we know our attention is being manipulated, you know, where this whole attention economy that we're in. Tech experts say that one of the biggest ways you and I were talking about this, one of the biggest ways to remain human in the time of AI and chatbots, is to retain agency Our ability to act and make free choices, which seems as though the ADHD brain is attuned to that, you know? Mm-hmm . It kind of reminds me of, um, like Percy Jackson, you know, where it's like all this stuff starts making sense, where it's like, why, why these demigods are as amazing as they are, but they don't fit the, you know, prescribed mold, if you will.

Hillary Wilkinson: (16:35)

In, in everyday society.  So we want to give a child with a DHD genuine agency over their screen time and build that DOPA menu like you talked mm-hmm . Um, can you talk about what, like, I'm just gonna, you know, take a peek behind the curtain the other way. What would happen if we, if we don't do those things, do you think, like, what would be, is there, is there ever a saturation point, I guess I'm asking where they would just organically want to come off the screen, or No?

Adela Baker: (17:21)

If they get bored. ADHD brains hate boredom .

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:27)

Mm-hmm .

Adela Baker: (17:28)

Boredom is, is slow death. Yeah. Some people call it borcher.

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:34)

Borcher. . That's a great word. Yeah.

Adela Baker: (17:38)

So it's, it's, it's, you know, as parents, we're not, it's not permissiveness. We are actually helping our children develop those executive function skills, right? Mm-hmm . Planning is an, an executive function skill, you know, asking our child, what, what is your plan? You know, they're gonna say, I don't have a plan, right? Because that's, that's hard. It's, that's uncomfortable to think of a plan. ADHD brain lives in the now or not now. Planning is future. That's hard. Mm-hmm . Um, so helping them think about their thinking, which is metacognition the very last of the executive gonna say function skills to develop

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:28)

Developmentally, that's gonna be way down the lane. So, correct.

Adela Baker: (18:32)

So we're, so they need some assistance with that. And it's not us telling ADHD brain again, like resists people giving them orders, but it's questioning. It's like, I trust that you know yourself best. What is your intention in playing this game? Again, going back to intentionality. How will you know when you've played enough? What does that look like? Yeah. Or how much time do you wanna be on the iPad this weekend? I remember the first time I asked my kids that, and my son looked at me, he's like, really? I can choose? I was like, yeah, you choose, you tell me. And he goes, two hours. I was like, two hours, two hours on the iPad for the weekend. Really? Like, yeah, okay, you got it, Buster, two hours. You get two hours this weekend, and then two hours is up like that. You know? I was like, this is your plan. We're doing your plan, buddy. It was a great plan, right? But he felt agency. Of course, he caught on real quick. But then, you know, so, you know, what is it that you wanna accomplish? Let's do it on your terms, and then how are you going to transition? That's the hard part. Mm-hmm . How are you going to transition to the next activity? How will you know, what are your cues? What are you going to do after?

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:01)

Yeah.

Adela Baker: (20:01)

So

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:01)

That, so what I'm hearing,

Adela Baker: (20:02)

They're looking forward to something.

Hillary Wilkinson: (20:05)

Yeah. What I'm hearing is you just, um, rather than a very didactic top-down management, you know, my way, the highway type stuff, which I, I honestly, I don't think helps very many people, but, that's, but that's my own personal bias. But, um, I think this continuous curiosity from the point of the caregiver is needed. Yeah. And that's hard, right? Because that requires such a, oh, like, such a mm-hmm. A trove of patience from ourselves. But I think, I think yeah, like curiosity and humor are very good tools.

Adela Baker: (20:47)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And letting them make mistakes, right? How, how are you going to remember, oh, okay, well, I'm gonna set, set a timer or something, but then maybe they keep hitting snooze on the timer, or, you know, but then going back to what went right, what didn't go right, well, what do you need to do next time? Like, this is a learning process. It's a, it's constant experimentation, helping them live on their own terms so that they can have their system. Yeah. And, and maybe they wanna use, I don't know, songs instead of timers. Like every song is three and a half minutes, more or less. So I can measure time in songs like we're working with highly creative, imaginative brains. Like, they will come up with hilarious solutions. Hilarious. Let them

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:39)

Uhhuh ,

Adela Baker: (21:40)

As long as they could explain it to you. Right. And then, and then what do you want me to do to support you?

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:46)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think,

Adela Baker: (21:47)

And if you don't do it, what do you want me to do? Mm-hmm

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:51)   

. And I think having someone like you in your back pocket , like, like a coach, is very helpful for parents because, um, I can, I can see a lot of ego getting in the way of embarrassment and ego over a child that it, you know, was quote unquote not following the rules or doing something their own way. And you have a lot of frustration with that. I can see that, you know? Mm,

Adela Baker: (22:26)

Mm-hmm . Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (22:27)

so many times we're, we're not alone in the upbringing of our children. Right. We're lucky if we have kind of a team of people around us. Do you have any recommendations for communicating with others? Like I said, I can see how, um, individuals who maybe are a little old school, like I'm thinking grandparents or even after school providers, teachers, anything, you know, uh, do you have recommendations for communicating with this team about the differing needs of A: a child with ADHD and B: monitoring the screen time, like it, how do you communicate the specific needs for really kind of drilling down on some of the screen specific needs?

Adela Baker: (23:32)

Mm-hmm . Again, I mean, this again depends on the age of the child, but with, with older kids, um, I'm a big advocate for transparency. Like, what do you want your teacher to know about you?

Hillary Wilkinson: (23:47)

Mm-hmm .

Adela Baker: (23:48)

What do you think is important? What do you, what do, um, what do you wanna do for your brain?

So we're, we're involving the kid in the process as well. Um, also, I think this might be a, a good place to interject this fact, 'cause this, this fact makes me, brings tears to my eyes every time. Um, a kid with ADHD hears over 20,000 more negative or corrective messages by the age of 10 or 12 than a neurotypical kid. Hmm. I'm gonna say that again. 20,000 more.

Adela Baker: (24:35)

Correction, after correction, after correction. Sit up, sit down, shut up. You know, give me that, whatever. That is chipping away at their self-esteem. Right? We do not want that for our kids. Um, I learned very early on the, the five penny game. Um, imagine that you have five pennies and you have two pockets for every one penny of correction that you have for your child. You wanna make sure you have four pennies of positive reinforcement.

Sometimes there are some days, I know it's hard to find four, and we wanna be specific about them. ADHD brain is extremely sensitive to that negative comment. And we don't want the positive comment to just be some, you know, good job, right? Like they're a dog or something, but really specific, again, to help them develop that metacognition. An example would be like, wow, I noticed that you turned off the TV by yourself and started your homework. How did you do that?

Adela Baker: (26:00)

How did you make that transition? Right. Or, oh, I, I noticed that, um, you know, you gave me the remote control and you seemed okay, that's really nice. What was going on in your head at that moment? Why, what made it easier today? So you're anchoring not just the win, but the key to success. 

Adela Baker: (26:25)

So now they know, oh, well, when I do this, not only is mom happy, but I experienced success.

Hillary Wilkinson: (26:35)

But what I hear with your, um, acknowledgement of like, whatever, whatever the desired result was, is you are also giving time and allowance for self-reflection. Mm-hmm . When you're, it's like you're the mirror. 'cause you're like, I, I noticed you gave me the remote. That was so nice. That felt really nice. What was different for you? You know, I mean mm-hmm . I think clearly you've been at this gig for a while. You're really good at what you do. , . But I just think it's a, it's an important lesson for all of us to recognize, this element of reflection. It may take a little bit of time, but it'll put you ahead in the long run to allow

Adela Baker: (27:23)

Absolutely. Yes. Because you're empowering your child, you're helping them learn about how does my brain function. Right? You're helping them develop their awareness. You're helping them also develop acceptance of their limitations. Mm-hmm . You're helping them develop also. They are know, they now know what accommodations they need. Right? Like, what prescription of glasses do I need? Oh, well, I need timers. They help me. I need my planner. It helps me. I need mom to knock on the door in the morning and remind me to get up. You know, whatever it is they like, they're understanding it's okay to have accommodations. It's fine. It doesn't make me weird. It's just what I need. And then you're helping them develop that self-advocacy piece later, which is, " How do I ask for help?” Right?

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:10)

Yeah. Yeah.

Adela Baker: (28:11)

How do I ask? Yeah. And, um, and when we are working with, um, with our kids for, for that empowerment, it's just so rewarding for everyone. Mm-hmm . You know, I'll give another example. When, you know, my, my kid, um, I took him and, and, um, his friends camping and I overheard him say, " Let's leave our phones in the tent. We don't need 'em.” And later I was like, that was so great. How did you all come to that decision that all of you agreed to do it and you never did touch your phones? And, um, you know, and, and that was nice that they got, we had to have this conversation about it, and they were the ones saying why it was great to be off their screen. It wasn't me lecturing them. All I did was ask a question. Now that is anchored in their brains, and that is empowering. 'cause it was their decision and their actions mm-hmm

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:16)

. And I love that you kind of bring it back again and again to the glasses and vision analogy. I've worn glasses since I was 13. So I relate to it very well, Uhhuh. And also it's, you know, my prescription changes. Every year I go in, I get it checked. So it's not, it's not a set fix, you know? No. What I needed at 15 is not what I need now in my fifties, you know? Yes,

Adela Baker: (29:49)

Yes, yes, yes.

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:50)

So it's, it's, I I like, I really, really like that, that glasses analogy. Yeah.

Adela Baker: (29:56)

And Hillary, I'm so glad you brought that up because remember I said ADHD brains get bored really easily, and accommodation that might have worked for a while may no longer work after three months or six months. Yeah. And that's okay, right? If I am all about, I'm gonna do Pilates after a while, I might be sick of Pilates and I might be like, oh, okay, well now it's gonna be yoga or now it's gonna be pickleball or, and that's fine. Right? That's, that's what a DH ADHD does, does it loves novelty, it loves new things. Mm-hmm . It, it keeps it fun, right. We're fun brains.

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:38)

Yes. Okay. So we have to take another short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Adella for her healthy screen habit.

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Ad Break: 988

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I'm speaking with Adella Baker, an expert on ADHD and Adella. On every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. So this is going to be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own homes, usually right away. Novelty, you know, that's the way we were just talking about. Okay. What's yours?

Adela Baker: (31:18)

So my tip is actually not a tip in the true coaching spirit. It is a question and that it is a question to ask yourself or that you can ask your child. Um, and if it, you're asking yourself, it's how will this help me live in alignment with my core values? What choice am I making here that gets me one step closer to living out my purpose?

Hillary Wilkinson: (31:43)

Mm-hmm .

Adela Baker: (31:45)

Right? How authentic am I? Is this authentic me making this choice, living in true authenticity? Or is this me doing it for some other reason? Yeah. And those are, those are big words for kids. So maybe an easier one would be, um, what is so imp what is really important to you right now? Mm-hmm

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:12)

.

Adela Baker: (32:12)

Right? So questioning, questioning that. Why, what's, what's your why here?

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:19)

Basic Simon Sinek, right?

Adela Baker: (32:21)

Yeah. .

Hillary Wilkinson: (32:23)

Okay. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show by visiting the show notes for this episode. You do this by going to healthyscreenhabits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. Adella, thank you so much for being here, for sharing your curiosity and your zest for life.

Adela Baker: (32:44)

It has been, it has been a pleasure. It has been a pleasure. Um, I have the best job in the world, and if you would like to find me or many others, go to the ADHD coaches organization directory. We are here; some specialize in working with parents, some specialize in working with teens or with kids. Um, we're there and we're here to help you.

Hillary Wilkinson: (33:07)

And I will include a link to that in the show notes as well. Okay.

Adela Baker: (33:12)

Thank you.