S3 Episode 4: How To TAME Your Tech // Dr. Beverly Pell of Smart Digital Kids

Teaching kids to TAME their tech:

T - talk

A - ask

M - model

E - explain

-Dr. Beverly Pell

Healthy Screen Habits Takeaway

Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson (00:00):

My guest today is the founder of Smart Digital Kids, a company which empowers parents and educators to raise kids who use tech in smart ways, intentionally, responsibly, and creatively to promote purpose and wellbeing. Her “TAME your tech” method for raising kids in a digital age helps families communicate and connect to tame tech together as a team. Welcome to the Healthy Screen Habits Podcast. Dr. Beverly Pell!

Dr. Beverly Pell (00:47):

Thank you so much. So happy to be here.

Hillary Wilkinson (00:51):

Well, I'm happy you're here. <laugh> so I'm interested to hear a little bit about your background. You kind of came to this, uh, technological education route in a circuitous way. And what was your, like your motivation behind creating smart digital kids? How did you get started in this space?

Dr. Beverly Pell (01:13):

Well, really it had to do with becoming a grandparent <laugh>, which is kind of the surprise, you know, because I've been a long time educator and I mean, for 20, 25 years, I even homeschooled my kids. I graduated from my PhD in 2018.  And in 2019, I became a grandmother. Well, congratulations. Thank you.  I can just play with my grand daughter! And then I was blessed to be able to watch her full time for about three months while my daughter went to work, saved some money. And, um, I didn't have that job yet. So I'm, I'll, I'll just watch this precious one. And that's when I realized I was really attached to my tech because have my cell phone, my smart phone next to me while feeding the baby and while looking at the baby and talking to the baby and it just, I just, it just came about where I realized this doesn't feel like it did when I was a mother.

Dr. Beverly Pell (03:01):

And I, I started thinking about this, what is this? I feel torn. And my attention was torn between what I used to do on my phone before I started holding this newborn baby. And I thought about it for a couple of months. And as she grew, like month four, I think is when it started the end of summer. She kept looking at me. She looked at me more and more and wanted to connect with me, how newborns do that. And I was looking at my phone and she's looking at me and I'm looking at my phone. I'm like, oh my goodness. I cannot be looking at my phone while she's looking at me. And I just, it all kind of came together at once. I sat down in the chair, she was napping and I, she now she was five months and I said, I need to tame my tech. That's it. It's out of control. It's got control on me.

Hillary Wilkinson (03:47):

That was your rock bottom moment.

Dr. Beverly Pell (03:49):

<laugh> it was. And I don't like to say I was addicted. It was getting in the way, cuz addiction is a strong word. Sure. So I would not say I was addicted to it, but boy was I attached. So I set off “tame my tech” and basically the way I did it was telling myself I can leave my phone on the kitchen counter while I bring her to my comfy chair and feed her, her bottle 20 minutes, I can do this. And then it was hard. It took me weeks, weeks to leave, leave the phone in the house and go out on my deck for a half an hour with no phone, just this baby and the difference in my life and the way I felt and just this intentional way of breaking a habit with my phone just changed my life. So she was the spark. She has been the catalyst of change for me on how I look at, uh, tech and how we use tech today.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:52):

So I think that's really important to note that you had kind of this unique experience that our generation I'm going, you and I are in the same age range, um, that we're having, where I always say that part of our superpower is that we are the last generation that remembers “the before”. So, I mean, who are, who are currently parenting, you know, and I mean for you, your grandparenting, but that difference between having a baby without tech, calling you, calling you, calling you and then taking care of an infant with. So I mean, that, that is I I'm feeling validated in that statement that what we know is equally as important as what's coming at us on the front side from the, from our tech.

Dr. Beverly Pell (05:54):

Exactly. And I think I began to, um, to feel what it would be like to be a new mother. Sure. And, um, because I'm a big tech user, I'm a heavy, I would say I'm a heavy tech user and thinking about my daughter and how it must be for her to raise her daughter. So I kind of thought of that generation, that generation Z or the, towards the tail end of the millennial generation of what it is like to be attached to your phone while raising this baby and trying to do both. And it was, it was difficult and you could feel it, you just knew as a mom, as a gut, as a grandma. But I imagine myself as a new mom, you know, instinctively your attention is divided. Right. And that's what got me thinking about taming my tech.

Hillary Wilkinson (06:39):

Yeah. Yeah. So who you have like a consulting practice basically for consulting for families and who absolutely. So I'm kind of interested in who, who are your primary clients, like when people come looking to you for help, what are the primary points that they're looking for help with?

Dr. Beverly Pell (07:00):

A lot of families, parents and all kinds of parents. I talk to, so dads, um, dads with teenage daughters, I seem to be talking to a lot of dads with teenage daughters, um, moms, single moms, but most of them have tweens - tweenagers that’s where they're reaching out for help. And they say, where they're gonna give 'em a, a phone for the first time where they don't feel as in control of their child's digital tech use, because they're gonna give 'em the phone and they need guidance. They need guidance with that. And they wanna say, am I doing this right? You know, they've heard about it. They might have done a little bit of research, but they just need that extra help, um, from an expert, uh, who has done it.I did raise three digital kids in that.

Dr. Beverly Pell (07:54):

Uh, they remember, and they are 20, 24 and 26. And they remember the sound of AOL going GE. And like, don't pick up the phone, you know, I'm going on the internet. So they remember that. And, and tech was always a big thing in my home because I was a writer and my husband is two. And, um, I was doing newsletters. So I was on the computer and our kids wanted to be on the computer. So whether we had it, but it's much more difficult now because it's in our pocket. Right. It's in everybody's pocket. And they see the back of the computer all the time, which even though the computer's this big. Right. Um, so yeah, so that's kind of what happened in our, in our family. And so now I find families are talking a lot more about it. Like my kid wants to use tech now when they're babies, <laugh> when they're toddlers.

Hillary Wilkinson (08:42):

I find that as a message of hope that people are looking to kind of gain some background knowledge on how to walk into this space, knowing that some management needs to exist. Because honestly, when I entered this world of, um, you know, tech education and digital awareness, I have to say, um, we were fighting a little bit of, pushback of people saying like, how is, how is this from the old older generation of how is this even different from a TV? And how is this, you know, and now we know so much more, we know about persuasive design. We recognize that  stuff like autoplay exists for a reason and all of this. So I'm, I'm very hopeful. I think that this upcoming generation of parents is coming with so much more information and they're just gonna do a better and better job. So I'm grateful. I'm grateful that people like you are out there giving, you know, hands on real life tips. So, uh, we have to take a quick break, but when we come back, I wanna dive into how Dr. Beverly Pell teaches families to TAME their tech.

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Hillary Wilkinson (10:05):

My guest is Dr. Beverly Powell, but apparently she has this cute, friendly name that her clients and friends call her. That's “Dr. Bev”. So now I'm going to bump us up to friend status and use her nickname too. <laugh> now Dr. Bev, before the break, we were talking about why families might come seeking your wisdom. And I wanna ask for kind of like a little sneak peek, at this technique of yours that I love called tame: T A M E. And you use it in teaching how families can tame their tech. Could you intro this whole process for us?

Dr. Beverly Pell (11:14):

Absolutely. Uh, the story goes after I realized I need to tame my tech, which means I was not in control of when I picked up my tech, where I was gonna place my phone. I wasn't thinking about my relationship with my tech. So I actually took some time to research. I read dozens of books, hundreds of articles, and I love to research. I'm a learner. That's what I do. And I enjoyed what I found and the positive side of communicating with our digital kids. That is the easiest way to raise our kids in a digital world, understanding that our kids are gonna be in a world where they are going to interact with digital devices, unless you wanna live in a bunker somewhere <laugh> underground, you've already made up your mind. “We are screen free.” Okay. That's fine. Uh, the majority will understand and do understand that their kids are gonna be growing up with screens.

Dr. Beverly Pell (12:17):

And we saw this with the pandemic, right? Everybody was using a screen for, for school unless parents pulled them out.  So what, what I did at the very end of my research is I looked through all my notes and what the experts were saying is the best way to right kids today in this digital world is to talk to them, to have these conversations, right? And to ask questions. That's how you begin the conversation, um, to model, to be intentionally modeling how you want them to use the tech. You have to think about how you use the tech, and then to explain, explain a, I heard that word so often. Will you explain what you're doing? Take the time to explain. And so, as I was writing all that down, I realized, oh my gosh, that spells tame. That's the acronym, tame, tame, tame, okay. Tame your tech. How do I do that? How do parents do that? How can we do that? Cuz we're all in the same team.

Hillary Wilkinson (13:14):

So the acronym is T A M E. Can you give us the breakdown for the T and the A and the M

Dr. Beverly Pell (13:21):

<laugh>? Absolutely. So T stands for talk. And that would be talking with your kid specifically around topics of digital technology. And we could list a whole bunch right now. Um, and that's part of what we do. I'll say what, usually,  it's um, emotion based when I work with families, I say, what comes to mind when you think of growing up in a digital world? And I start with the parents and so “T” is talking. And when I talk with the parents, my program, the tame your tech program starts with self-awareness <affirmative>. So that's part of when I go into their home and I'm coaching one on one, and I say, let's start with, self-awareness start with you. What do you think of when you think of digital topics? What are just three topics you wanna talk about? You wanna know more about? And then I say your kids, it depends on the age of the kids. 

Hillary Wilkinson (14:14):

Just outta curiosity. When, when you ask about people growing up in a digital age, like I don't, I'm kind of interested. What, what is the, the baseline of emotions that are, is it primarily positive? Are people fearful? Like what, what, I mean, I feel like you've got your finger on the pulse of yeah. The emotional feed of what this is doing to us.

Dr. Beverly Pell (14:37):

That's such a great question because it's the gamut, it's all different, you know, we're such a Divis and we love if, you know, if you've been on, uh, social media at all, you know, Twitter is the most divisive and through politics and through the pandemic and through vaccinations, we tend to be in the United States here, a, you know, we love to get in debates and divisiveness. So in my experience, it's all across a continuum. So people fall on different, uh, spots on it. So there are people that are against it and they need to control it. And they're afraid of it. Those emotions are fear and yes, we need to control it. We need to control our kids.

Dr. Beverly Pell (15:23):

Can you come into my house and control my kid? I've been asked before, can you just make a video that I can show my kid? And it's like, well, um, really it starts with the family and it's taming tech as a team. Right. And, um, so we start kind of there. The beginning is self-awareness, so that's, so we start with self-awareness and then talking is the conversation.

Dr. Beverly Pell (16:11):

And I get from as, um, my kid is way beyond talking. He's 16. He never talks to me. He just goes with his phone all the time. He's with his friends, how do I start the conversation? And really conversations are easily begun by asking a question. So that's asking, just simply ask a question. Well, what do I ask? And then we brainstorm questions that they might feel comfortable asking <affirmative> 

Hillary Wilkinson:

Is that what the A is for then?

Dr. Beverly Pell:

Exactly A is asking, asking then exactly. And then modeling. So then moving on to modeling, which is the most challenging. And I wrote this parent guide kind of explaining and just a couple of pages, like stories from my own experience. Modeling is the most challenge, obviously, cause these little children are always watching us. These little children are always watching and then they get busy between years of five and 10 or 11.

Dr. Beverly Pell (17:04):

And then they start watching us again very closely at age 12 and 13 and 14, cuz they think they're just like mom and dad, I'm all grown up now, those hormones, um, and their brains just start growing. It's such a fast process. So, um, modeling, modeling, modeling. I, when I work with parents of tweens, I ask them how often their kids are on the internet, where are they on the internet? Mm-hmm <affirmative> and it's funny because a lot of parents, uh, focus on the time, how much time our kids are on the internet versus where they're going.

Dr. Beverly Pell (17:41):

So I try to help them see that, where they're going, let's start there and then talk about the time issue because I think a lot of parents, uh, ha get hung up a little bit on, oh, he's always on his phone. I hear that a lot. He's always on his phone. He's too much time on his phone. It's hours of time on his phone and okay, that's true. Me too. Me too. Me too. We're all on our phones a lot, but where we're on our phones and how we're using it is very important. And we model that, where are we? Mom's on Facebook while her son's on Snapchat, right? Dad's on, um, Twitter and his little girls on Instagram. So we're, we're at different places on the internet often from the tween age years. And that's where we start to kind of, um, fracture a little bit. So modeling is much deeper. It takes a little bit longer for modeling.

Hillary Wilkinson:

I think it probably requires, it's kind of like, you know, setting up any sort of healthy habit. There's a lot of, I mean, like you said, you have to identify what is that you would like to change and then kind of work towards little tweaks, little, the small movements that lead to major change. 

Dr. Beverly Pell (19:00):

Absolutely absolutely. It's behavioral change, you know, behavioral change is difficult and it's deep work, right? And so when I work with parent, you say, just give, just gimme something to, to, to help me get my son to do or get my daughter to do X Y Z. I say, well, that's a Bandaid. Yeah. And, and you wanna heal or you wanna make a new habit, you know, a new, healthy screen habit, right? You need new habits and we start one at a time. It's not like you, you have to do these 10 things or it's never gonna get better No, its one at a time and big wins. Um, and part of the modeling is the next step: Explaining. Mm. So explaining really goes with modeling the way that talking and asking go together. So Talking and Asking is part of the conversation and listening of course, and then Modeling and Explaining go together.

Dr. Beverly Pell (19:57):

So if I'm doing this with my phone, for example, I'm trying to tame my tech. So I'm gonna turn my phone off. It's Saturday morning, I'm gonna take an hour and physically turn the thing off. All eyes are open in your house. What?! You're gonna unplug from the world!!. And my husband, when I first did this, I actually took a Sunday and turned my phone off for that Sunday. And I think I did the iPhone thing where you can write for your texts when people text you or, or call you. And I think on my text, it would bounce a text back to them. When somebody texted me and said, “I take Sundays off, but I will get back to you.” Oh my goodness. That day that I did it, my friends, my dad, everything, “what are you doing? This is ridiculous. You don't need to do this. We need to talk with you”. And oh my goodness, it was tricky. But this is what modeling, this is what taming is. It's trying out new things.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:57):

And I love that. Um, in using that auto text function, you're actually creating an opportunity for more conversation with, with the people who text you the most, who are gonna be your loved ones, you know, and talking about, oh, well, this is why I'm choosing to do this. And this is why I'm practicing like Tiffany Schlain.

Dr. Beverly Pell (21:19):

Exactly. I was just thinking.

Hillary Wilkinson (21:22):

Tech Shabbat.

Dr. Beverly Pell (21:23):

Exactly. Exactly. And, and that was one of the reasons I tried it. It was Tiffany Shlain. I'm thinking why not? She can do it. And her kids love it. And I love her. Um, and so when I did it, my husband, and like you said, your loved ones, they were like, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I haven't done it since it's really funny. However, I have turned my phone off for 24 hours and I just let them know first that I do that. And it's usually Friday nights through to Saturday afternoons because that is when I'm least, uh, needed. I've learned that. Right. So I've learned, so a lot of this is, is learning and explaining, you know, the, the explaining why you did it. Like you said, the conversation around digital technology we, we need to get used to having those conversations instead of the conversations that usually go that went in my house is why are you always on your phone every time I see you, you're playing games. Why, what are you doing? You know, don't you think you've spent enough time and what about homework? And I just nagged my own kids and especially my son so much, um, explaining why we're doing what we're doing, helps us feel more in control of our tech.

Hillary Wilkinson (22:36):

If any of our listeners would like to learn more about the power of unplugging one day a week, you can go back and listen to Episode 7 of Season 1 with Tiffany Shlain where we review her book, 24/6. Okay. So Dr. Bev, now we are well versed, able to tame our tech with the Talk Ask Model and Explain. 

Thank you so much. I wanna ask you about the kind of the other end of the spectrum and something that's not always agreed upon by practitioners in this field of tech awareness and that's this whole concept of using tech as a reward versus limiting or removing it as a punishment. Do you have any feelings on this? Like where do you stand on this issue? <laugh>

Dr. Beverly Pell (24:37):

It's, that's a great, yeah, that's a greats, a big one. It's so important. And I do think there's an answer, at least for me and my family. And the answer is that tech is a privilege. It's a privilege. And, um, coming from a, an education background and the pandemic, um, in circles where, you know, again, higher education and talking with, with how do we school children at home and equality and equity came up in those conversations in the last year that 18 million households were without wifi, right? They, they were without internet connection.

Hillary Wilkinson (25:19):

The digital divide.

Dr. Beverly Pell (25:21):

Oh, huge digital divide. There's the answer. Digital technology is a privilege and we still need to make it equitable. We still need to make sure that everyone has an opportunity for that. So getting that idea of it's a privilege, um, into all households and our children. So where we explain to our children that technology is a privilege. So some parents say, you know, eight at eight years old, my kid's gonna take the bus and I want her to have a cell phone or smartphone. So they just give her an iPhone because that's what all of our family uses. And we're on the same calendars and we're, I know an iPhone and really well, so I can teach her and that's great, but part of the conversation needs to be:  it's a privilege. So if things are privileges sometimes, um, we need to step back and see how we're using that privilege.

Dr. Beverly Pell (26:20):

Are we using it to help us, uh, appropriately, responsibly, um, intentionally, or are we being careless with it? Um, making bad choices with it. Um, and, but as far as your question, is it a reward or a punishment? Intentionally set a limit a half an hour. So still being, um, intentional when you use it for a reward. Um, and I didn't use it all the time, but then as a punishment, it's really funny that you an, uh, an, uh, ask this question because I just had a real on Instagram go semi viral.

Dr. Beverly Pell (27:20):

And the question that I was on it, and there's still, you know, reals can be very silly. But the question that I was asking was, uh, posing as a parent. If I give my child a cell phone or a smartphone, in fact, I just said phone, uh, too early, can I just take it back? And I was being funny and quicky and sarcastic, and I said, no, <laugh> that you can't just take it back. And it went like some semi viral, like over a million and a half views. And the comments were, there were like a thousand comments and it took me a long time to go through them. And I wanted to reply to most of them, the comments were from, uh, the, I would say most of 'em are somewhere between age 17, cuz they would say I'm 17, I'm 16, 17 to 25.

Dr. Beverly Pell (28:13):

And so they were gen Zs and they were saying, you are so right. You can't just take it away. You have to explain why you're taking it away. Why are you taking away as a punishment? That is worst thing you could take away is a punishment. And it was just really eye opening for me to hear this generation that was given an, a phone, a phone, a lot of 'em had their stories, oh, I got a flip phone, I got a frog phone. I got <laugh> a snake phone. And they were telling about that, but they got their iPhone. Most of them said that the ideal age to be 12 and 13, but not before explaining what it is, why we're using it and the boundaries and limits. So they are such wise kids. So it's interesting to me.

Hillary Wilkinson (29:00):

And that's interesting cuz that holds hands with the Wait Until Eighth Pledge. It's wait until eighth grade. So you're looking at 12, 13 that's eighth grade right there. So I know there's also a movement to withhold social media until 15/16. So it's wait until eighth grade to get the device, wait until 15/16 to start, you know, to engage in social media. Now that's not to say that they can have zero engagement, but maybe it's on your device and it's with, you know, it's a lot like yeah.

Dr. Beverly Pell (29:34):

That's a good idea.

Hillary Wilkinson (29:35):

The analogy to driver's training, stands up where <laugh> we do not, we do not hand our kids, the keys to a sports car and say, make good choices. And you know, and on their way they go, we give them, book learning, computer tests, they have to drive with someone else. They have so many hours that they're driving with other drivers before they're allowed to go off on their own. And yet

Dr. Beverly Pell (30:05):

Absolutely. Yeah. And the thing I love that too, I don't mean to, to cut you off, but a, a different way to think. I love the driver's training idea and I want to add to it because our kids are watching us model. <affirmative> driving mm-hmm <affirmative> at age 1, 2, 3, 4. And so it's not just, oh, you're getting to be 13 now. 14 permit time. Let's talk about it. So, the TAME your tech model starts with talking when they're like my granddaughter, oh, you know, five months, six months. And, then she became one and a half and I wanted to do a Snapchat with her because she likes the funny filters and send it to her dad because her dad does Snapchats with her every day. So we talk about what it is. We talk that it's silly mm-hmm <affirmative> and the filters, what they are.

Dr. Beverly Pell (30:58):

They're not real teaching her a little bit about what tech is and how she can control it. She can choose. And she says it. Sometimes I bring my camera out to take a photo. No, she'll say no. And I'll be okay when I put it down, I respect her. She has a boundary. We talk about it. So same with, with, with driving, we almost get in an accident. And our six year old in the back seat goes, “Mommy, what happened?” And we explain what happened. So we might be like you said, uh, looking at, um, technology together, research something, and a popup comes up and there's nudity or an image that's scary and in our face. And we say, rather than freak out, this is what I've learned. Take a deep breath and then say, whoa, we did not expect that to happen.

Dr. Beverly Pell (31:49):

And we click off of it. We talk about it. We let's, you know, let's talk about this, cuz sometimes it can be quite traumatic, right? So this conversation is more than just driver's ed. It's more understanding how powerful tech is. We understand that cars are really powerful, but the technology is really powerful. And it's not too early to talk about the power of technology with our toddlers. And one little story to go with that shows how old I am. The rule in my home, in the 1990s…year 2000, maybe it was 2002 because my son was like two years old. And I have a picture of him in his diapers with his hand on the mouse, in front of the computer. I said to my kids, you cannot use the mouse for the computer or play games on the computer unless you are potty trained. That, that was my old fashioned rule.

Hillary Wilkinson (32:46):

Motivation comes in many forms. <laugh>

Dr. Beverly Pell (32:49):

Yes, it did. It did. And it showed the seriousness of control your body, control yourself. Then you can control the mouse. You can curl. Now, if that's not gonna work in today's world, right. Your listeners are like, are you kidding? My, my 11 month old is on my iPad playing her little game. And I understand that. Um, but the fact that we talk about it, the thought, the fact that we are talking about what we're doing, and we're very intentional about our tech use on whatever device, digital device we're using.

Hillary Wilkinson (33:19):

Right. So what, what sort of advice do you have for parents who might be co-parenting with a partner who may not be on the same page or shares the same concerns surrounding tech?

Dr. Beverly Pell (33:32):

That's a really good question too. Um, I advise parents sometimes there's tension in terms of communicating about everything. And yet alone digital devices is to respect everyone's boundaries when it comes to tech, because using our tech, it's very personal. It is, um, it is so personal and to respect those boundaries and again, this whole idea of self-awareness communication leads to connection. I love that. So that's, that's part of it. 

Hillary Wilkinson (34:19):

That’s being a family. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, that's being a family of whatever shape that's taking form. Exactly. That connection is the family.

Dr. Beverly Pell (34:25):

Exactly. And to, and it can be a point of contention, whether it's, um, and single mothers that I've spoken with as well, you know? Oh, well, they just don't talk to, they don't listen. They don't talk, but it's it's about, um, yeah. Letting down your guard, becoming vulnerable and coming together to talk about like, like you have at healthy screen habits, the plan, what is the family technology plan? Let's just start there because  it takes away the struggle, the power struggle around tech that can happen in families around technology.

Hillary Wilkinson (35:00):

Thank you. What I refer to the family tech plan that you can find on a healthy screen habits website, it's a free downloadable tool as a conversational springboard. So I love that your first part of TAME is talk because that's what, that's where it starts.

Dr. Beverly Pell (35:18):

Yes. You have to start there. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (35:21):

So we have to take a short break, but when I come back, I'm going to ask Dr. Bev for her healthy screen habit.

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I'm talking with Dr. Beverly Pell, founder of Smart Digital Kids, an organization whose mission is to raise a generation of kids who are smart, confident, and compassionate communicators who thrive personally and professionally in a digital world. That is like a life goal of mine. So <laugh>, I am aligned with your mission. So Dr. Bev, on every episode of the healthy screen habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. This is a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one you can share with us today?

Dr. Beverly Pell (37:17):

I certainly do. And it is the fourth step of the TAME Your Tech process. And it is explain, explain, explain, explain, and start when your kids are very young. Um, when you have a two year old that comes up to you, you're on the couch, you have your iPad or your tablet in your lap. And your two year old comes with a toy and starts banging on your, your, your laptop or your iPad or your phone or whatever you have in your digital device and bats it away and bats it away and says, blah, whatever, whatever they need, mom, I need this mom or whatever they're pestering you. And you just had a chance to sit down and do what you need to do. Instead of saying to them just a minute, just a minute, I'll be there just a minute. Just can you just wait?

Dr. Beverly Pell (38:06):

And then there's this escalation of, of when now the kids crying, right? Explain, take a moment to look at them, look up from your device, look them in the eye and say, I see you, I hear you. This is what I'm doing. And even take your screen, turn it towards your kids. So you're looking at it together and say, mommy is, and then whatever you're doing, it may be, uh, making an appointment with a doctor cuz we don't do it on phones anymore. Right? We do it online. It might be arranging, uh, a carpool, uh, at school for tomorrow because there were changes. It may be looking up a recipe for dinner and you just wanna do it in peace, cuz you're tired and, and your kid's pestering and it's kind of a habit that's happened. But if you try just this one time, this new way of stopping, looking at your child who needs you as usual and show your screen to your child and show them what you're doing and say mommy or daddy and grandma needs two minutes to finish this and I'll be right there and you'll be surprised. The kid feels heard. The kid knows that you understand that, you know, they're next in line <laugh> and they don't go away feeling, um, put off and you're second and go away. I, what I'm doing is more important than you. So explain, explain, explain.

Hillary Wilkinson (39:31):

I love that. It feeds right into attachment parenting with feeling safe and seen and soothed. So I, I love that. And it's such a great tip cuz you are explaining how you're using technology to teach its use as a tool and not just as a toy because so oftentimes our kids only see tech, they use it primarily as a game piece or a toy. So they assume using their basis of knowledge that if you're using technology, you're opting to play a game over dealing with them. And so this shows them that actually technology is a tool that we use. It's not using us.

Dr. Beverly Pell (40:15):

Absolutely. And even social media, I mean, I've been on Facebook and I'll say, oh mommy's on Facebook. I'm looking and connecting with my friends. Mm-hmm <affirmative> rather than mindlessly scrolling. I'm just mindlessly scrolling cuz I had a rough day <laugh> and that could be too. I was gonna, that really could be too the truth.

Hillary Wilkinson (40:34):

It might help you have a little like checkpoint with yourself as well of like, oh maybe I don't need to be doing this right now.

Dr. Beverly Pell (40:40):

<laugh> there it is. Yep. You're together. Your toddler can help bring it together for you. So I guess yes.

Hillary Wilkinson (40:46):

So thank you so much for chatting with me today, Dr. Bev, if our listeners would like to learn more about you or see how they get their own family involved in taming their tech, where can they look to find more?

Dr. Beverly Pell (41:02):

They can find me@wwwsmartdigitalkids.com. I primarily do coaching right now and it's one on one. I do work with families, parents, teenagers, uh, it's very personalized, very individual based on their family and the TAME your tech model guide. I help them with that. And so I have a coaching page there. I also have a Tech Tamer class and we took a little break in October and we're gonna start up again in November. So if you visit smartdigitalkids.com, you will see a signup form. There would love to have you.  And I'm on social media. So you can find me Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, all those social media channels, smart digital kids. Yes. Smart digital kids. And then I am also under Dr. Beverly Pell. You'll find Dr. Beverly Pell or Beverly Pell PhD. You'll find me that way too.

Hillary Wilkinson (42:03):

Wonderful. Thank you so much for all the resources.

Dr. Beverly Pell (42:07):

Of course. Thanks for having me. It was so much fun chatting with you. Thanks Hillary!