S3 Episode 7: Is My Kid The Cyberbully? // Dr. Elizabeth Englander, PhD from the Massachusetts Aggression Reduction Center

I think it really is hard for a lot of people to accept the possibility that their child could be mean to another child. And I don't think there's a child born who couldn't be mean to other children at times.

- Dr. Elizabeth Englander, PhD

Healthy Screen Habits Takeaway

For More Info:

Massachusetts Aggression Reduction Center

https://www.englanderelizabeth.com/

https://www.insanelyawesomebooks.com/

Other resources referenced:

Childrens and Screens Webinars



Books by Dr. Englander:

The Insanely Awesome Pandemic Playbook: A Humorous Mental Health Guide For Kids

Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson (00:00):   As the founder and executive director of the Massachusetts aggression reduction center at Bridgewater State University. My guest today is a nationally recognized expert in the area of bullying and cyber bullying, childhood causes of and abuse and children's use of technology. I was first introduced to Dr. Elizabeth Englander while attending a Children And Screens: Ask the Experts webinar. I was so interested in our work that I actually did that whole like split screen thing where, and was looking her up and listening to the content, which means of course I didn't actually process all of the information she was giving, cuz we know that's what happens with multitasking. So I'm really glad to get a second pass at this amazing content today. This is the topic of social media and cyber bullying. It's one that strikes fear into the hearts of most parents. I know, including myself, I am so grateful. We have an expert today who can help us figure out the healthiest path for our tweens and teens. Welcome to the healthy screen habits podcast, doctor Elizabeth Englander.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (01:23):

Thanks so much for having me, Hillary.

Hillary Wilkinson (01:26):

Absolutely. Elizabeth, I'm interested to hear a little bit about your background. What was the motivation behind founding the Massachusetts Aggression Reduction Center? Like kind, how did you get into this space?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (01:40):

So I've been a researcher looking children and aggression for many years. I actually started in graduate school in the 1980s and I've been doing it since then, uh, around 2003, an opportunity crossed my desk to, um, do something different, something bold. And uh, it was called a presidential fellowship. And basically what you get for it is you get a year off your job and they give you a grant and you're supposed to do something really different and innovative. So at that point, everybody was talking about bullying. Everyone was worried about it.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (02:18):

Remember that in the 1990s, there were a lot of school shootings yeah. That, that were linked to bullying in kids. Yeah. And so I thought, well maybe we can do bullying better. Maybe we can be an academic center that really looks at research. Uh, we know how to teach because we're all teachers and maybe we can really service this field better than, um, a situation where there was a lot of people working in it, but there really wasn't much quality control.

So that was really why I founded it. And then really, very quickly, very quickly, I would say around 2005, 2006, a year or two later, uh, the social media really exploded on the scene. And um, honestly, uh, Hillary, it was a, a happy mistake I just happened to be a techie. I always enjoyed tech. I'm one of those sort of nerdy, you know, early adopter types. And so for me this was a very natural progression and we've been working since then on how kids deal with each other in online spaces and how they grow up and their relationships and their behaviors in school and all of that.

Hillary Wilkinson (03:33):

Well, lucky for us this marriage of your tech plus your research background kind of merged - do you have children?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (03:46):

I do. I have three kids on my own and I very, very much lived this. They're a little bit older now, but, um, boy, uh, this is a, this is not an easy topic. It is. I think that dealing with kids and technology growing up is the single biggest challenge that parents are facing right now outside of the pandemic, which I would actually now rank as number one in this <laugh> line of challenges. But, uh, you know, really, uh, technology is part of that. And I do think we're going to learn how to do it. I optimistic, but, um, right now I think it's a little bumpy because we're kind of learning as we go.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:26):

Yes, I agree. And I love that you're coming from a place of optimism and hope because I share that with you. I think that when I talk to parents today, they have a much firmer grasp on what is a, a healthier balance of tech than even when Healthy Screen Habits started back in 2018, you know? Yeah.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (04:53): 

 That doesn't surprise me because I think one of the problems is if you're a parent right now, who's in your, you know, maybe later thirties or forties or fifties, um, you ha your parenting life has been born and reared on terror of technology. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, uh, you've been told through the media that there are all these horrible things that are gonna happen. You know, one mistake and your child's life is ruined! One bit of bullying and they're scarred for life! And geez, you know, we had enough to be anxious about honestly, even before all this. And, um, I think it's very difficult. I think that for younger parents today, maybe they realize that to some extent getting used to this technology is like getting used to all changes that society has had. There's a bumpy period. And then you begin to learn how to cope.

Hillary Wilkinson (05:50):

Yeah. It's kind of that norming and storming period, which happens when, when any group comes together and they have to do a combined project, you know?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (06:03):

Yeah. <laugh> exactly, we're all having to do a group project. The problem is we don't even know it yet. See, that's one of the problems is that we've been given this group project by mother nature. And, uh, we don't even know that we're in a group project yet, but we are!

Hillary Wilkinson (06:22):

Right. And then enters technology, which was developed, which much of, well, I should say social media specifically since that's what we're talking about today was developed by people who, I mean were barely out of their childhood at the time of its inception. So it's, uh, they were certainly not coming to it with a lens for parenthood.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (06:47):

Certainly not.



Hillary Wilkinson (07:41):

So this really, I think, speaks to the mission of your organization, which is helping children develop

healthier social relationships, including through their use of social media and digital technology. So before we dive into the including two part, can you first let's like, I, I like to start with like a very base level of things. How do you define a healthy social relationship? And then after that, let's get into the role of social media and digital tech today in healthy social relationships.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (08:21):

Well, when you think about children growing up, think about what their jobs are. So what, what do we want children to do as they grow up? We want them to grow taller. We want them to be healthy. We want them emotionally to be on sort of an even keel and to be able to cope, not always happy, right? But to be able to cope when things are difficult, we wanna have a relationship with our kids where we can help them out and be supportive if they need us and sometimes even give them the benefit of our wisdom. I know that seems incredible, but it it's true. Uh, a healthy social relationship for kids means going out in the world and making a relationship with somebody, a peer, having a friend, it's two kids who like each other, who like spending time together, who don't fight all the time, who learn how to iron out differences, who learn how to have fun together, which is the goal of all childhood friendships, just to have fun together and to be supportive of each other.

And honestly, that's how children learn resiliency with problems like cyber bullying or bullying. They learn it by having these social supports and their friends. So it's really an important part of growing up.

Hillary Wilkinson (09:44):

Right. I, I like that you emphasize fun, cuz I don't know that we have enough fun in our lives always. So I I'm a big proponent of fun.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (09:56):

Absolutely. <laugh>.

Hillary Wilkinson (09:59): What  do you think the role of social media and digital tech has moved into this realm of healthy social relationships? What, what, what sort of role do you see filling there?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (10:16):

Well, I think in ways it's made relationships easier for kids and in ways it's made it harder mm-hmm <affirmative> so it means that kids have more other more peers that they can potentially meet and get to know for kids who are marginalized, who are different or who feel like they don't have a group, it really can be because it means that on social media or on a game, they can meet other kids like them. And that's really empowering. Um, but there are also downsides to it. There are a couple of big ones. One big one is that using screens takes away from the face to face, play time that children experience, I don't know if you know this Hillary, but since the 1970s children have lost 12 hours a week of free time. That is astonishing.

And a lot of that time was time spent outdoors playing with other kids. So screens tend to take away the free play that occurs outdoors in an unstructured way with other kids. Now there were risks to that kind of play too. Right? If you have a pack of kids playing on your street, one of they could get in a fight or somebody's feelings could get hurt. That's all true. But - That face to face playtime is how kids develop social skills. Sure. So no play means no social skills. And then, and worse social skills mean it's much harder for you to make friends with somebody. So that's one of the problems that I think social media and screen habits have brought up for kids. Um, another one is just that it learning how to communicate using digital technology is both difficult and a moving target. So just communicating today is really different.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (12:10):

You and I are communicating on Zoom, right? And that's very different from say texting each other totally different. Uh, but um, the point is, is that it's learning how to do that is like a new skill understanding how it's different to talk to people face to face versus texting with them. Those are two really different skills. Every parent knows this, right? Every parent knows their child can pick up a device and communicate really easily. But boy, if they have to talk to somebody face to face, you really see a different kid sometimes. So these are two different skills. Communication skills are what relationships are all about. So I think technology has been helpful for some kids in terms of their peer relationships. I think for many others, it's made them a little more challenging.  It's something to pay attention to because we really want kids to have healthy peer relationships. That's really important,

Hillary Wilkinson (13:23):

Right- Cuz that speaks to long term studies that have been done on loneliness, which, um, without relationships you're going to get into that scary zone of loneliness which as it, as it turns out can be as detrimental to mental health as smoking is to physical health.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (13:44):

Absolutely. It's a key cornerstone of your life, right? Is your ability to go out in the world and make a relationship with somebody. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson (13:52):

So we have to take a break, but when we come back, we're going to dive a little bit deeper into the whole issue of cyber bullying and social media

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Hillary Wilkinson (14:38):

My guest is Dr. Elizabeth Englander, an expert in the realm of cyber bullying, childhood aggression, and children's use of technology. So this is the part where I get to use this platform in a totally self-serving way. And Elizabeth, I'm going ask you questions that really, I want to know. I need to know for my own family. So we are at an age in my house where I have a daughter rapidly approaching the age of exploring social media. And we've held off for a long time later than a lot of folks, later than a lot of friends. But that being said, I've read that data surrounding Instagram and teenage girls and I'm getting nervous. So my first question is: Do you have an age recommendation or guideline for when a child can kind of start stepping into these waters of social media?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (15:49):

I get this question a lot actually for age recommendations, but it's not a good thing to do an age recommendation. And let me tell you why. So I could say to you, for example, on average, when people hit about 15, you see a big reduction in fights and bullying online, you see reductions in more, you know, fewer errors and problems. That's true, but that is an average.  Your child could be anywhere on the continuum. So here's what I tell parents, tell your child that you're thinking of letting them have their own device or letting them go on social media, whatever step you're taking and say to them. "I wanna sit down with you and tell you what I'm thinking and what I'm feeling, what I've read. And I wanna hear what your thoughts are about my concerns. And we'll kind of go from there." Now, if your child says, "You're the worst mom ever!" And stomps off and slams her door, she's not ready for this change. And you could say that to her. You could say my decision about whether I'm gonna let you do that is gonna hinge on how you deal with this preparation.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (17:12):

If she says, “Okay, I'm willing to sit down, I'm willing to talk. That's fine. We can talk for weeks. If you want whatever you want, that's gonna make you feel comfortable. Mom.” That's a child who's ready.

Hillary Wilkinson (17:25):

Right? So there's a maturation.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (17:28):

Yeah. I really think you should do it on a case by case basis because I I'm telling you, Hillary, I I've met 10 year olds who I felt like were ready to do a lot of stuff online. And there are 20 year olds at the university. If I was their mother, I wouldn't let them near a cell phone with a 10 foot pole. So it really depends on the person. And you know, you really have to say, look, this is fun. This is gonna be fun. But there are problems. Here are some of the risks I'm thinking about. You won't be able to put it down. You'll become addicted. You'll begin to have problems sleeping or with your weight. Uh, you'll begin to have problems with, with your friends where you'll fight a lot or you'll get bullied. You'll begin to have body image problems. Here's my concerns. What do you think about these? Do you have friends who you think use things too much? What do they say? Do they, we don't wanna fight over things. We don't wanna get to that position. So how are we gonna avoid a situation where I feel like you're glued 24/7 to a screen and you feel like, "Hey, it's fun. Let me do what I want." I said, we're gonna have to find a middle ground here. And I think that's the way to go. I really don't think there's any other shortcut.

Hillary Wilkinson (18:47):

Yeah. I like how with this approach, you are A: Individualizing it because I think as people we all wanna be treated as individuals and B: It's very, it's conversational and connection building on the way that you're communicating with your team.  It's a, a lot of give and take. And it's also exposing your own concerns and vulnerabilities. So I, I really, really like the conversational approach.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (19:22):

Yeah. I think it's better, don't confuse this though, with the idea that you have to give into everything they say, so you can say to your or child, we're talking about what the rules are gonna be, but I'm gonna be, I'm the parent I'm responsible and I'm gonna have to make the ultimate decision. But I want to hear what you think that doesn't mean. I'll always do what you say. And if you're sitting with a child and their recommendations are just way out the ballpark, time and time again, "  I think, I think dad that the rules should be that you never have anything to do with this, except you pay the bill and you get outta my way. And I do whatever I want. That's a good...." Like if they're putting forward ridiculous rules, then they're not ready for that step mm-hmm <affirmative>. So this is all kind of a way for you to say, “Hey, we're exploring this idea. That's what we're doing right now. And I wanna hear your thoughts. I wanna hear how you handle my concerns and it's not being sneaky. You're being upfront. I'm watching you to see how you handle my concerns.”

Hillary Wilkinson (20:29):

If they already do have an account, if they, if we're, I mean, we have listeners who have children from zero all the way on up to the grown and flown sorts. You know, if they already do have accounts, how do, what are some tips that you might have to help them maintain a healthy balance with the platform?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (20:57):

So I think if your children are grown and flown, you shouldn't be meddling in their social media use first and foremost. <laugh> right. I mean, let's get a grip here. But, uh, having said that, um, there's no reason that you can't say to your child, you know, I have new information. I know you've been using this for a while, but I have new information and I'm concerned about it. Can we talk about it? And you know, you may very well be able to reassure me and make me sort of feel better about our choices, but I really wanna hear what you think and you don't have to accuse your kids of things you can say, "Do you have any friends who have done this? Do you hear about anybody who's done this? Do you know anybody who sent a nude photo and had a bad experience? Uh, do you know anybody who overreacted and got in a fight with their friends that turned into a bullying situation?" Um, it doesn't have to be personal. It can be in the abstract and that's completely fine. Uh, you know, you don't have to accuse them and they don't have to feel accused. You're just looking for their opinion. Uh, think of them as like you're the king and they're the prime minister. You wanna hear their thoughts? They're your number one, ally. And your number one advisor, but you're gonna make the decision in the end. Right?

Hillary Wilkinson (22:18):

What brought me to you was like I said, a webinar that was based that came about specifically right after Francis Hogan and the Facebook files and all of this negative information that was being exposed surrounding Instagram and teenage girls specifically. If we have this data that shows that Instagram has led to teenage girls feeling worse about themselves, et cetera, why don't we just tell them to stop using it?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (23:06):

So, one of the things we found in our research was that the apps that caused the most distress, where kids had the most problems or poor body images, like Instagram, were also the apps where they got the most positive interactions. So if you say to your daughter, I don't want you to be on Instagram, cuz I'm really worried about what it might do to your body image. She's not gonna wanna delete it because she's also getting a lot of goodies from that app. She's getting a lot of positive interactions with her friends. A lot of things are fun and interesting. It's not, it's not like we had this idea I think from the media that there were like bad apps. It, it doesn't appear that way so much. It appears that for most apps they can be both bad and good. Okay. I think the only, you know, I think there's so many influences in our society around body image.

It's just absolutely overwhelming. And I really think the only way to combat this is to talk about it. Okay. I think that we need to talk with our daughters about this is really a big problem and it seems like this app makes it worse. What do, what do you think? Because the trick to not being so influenced by photographs is, um, to be aware of that influence. So it doesn't impact you as much. If you're looking at all these cutesy photos and you're thinking, oh, this is just what me and my mom were talking about yesterday, how girls are set up to look this way. They all pose in certain way. And now I realize why. And uh, you know, it it's really striking, like maybe she never thought of it that way before, but now that you've put it in her mind, maybe she will. And I think it kind of has to be not just a one time conversation, you know, but media proliferation is a huge challenge and we're gonna all have to figure out a way to live with this. I don't think it's gonna go back.

Hillary Wilkinson (25:13):

Right, right. So we can talk all day to our kids about the right things to do online. But honestly like everything else, I, I think it's what we do that sends the clearest message. And do you have any tips or reminders for us on what things we could be actively modeling when on social media? I mean, what other things we could do to make sure that we are modeling a healthy relationship?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (25:56):

Well, sure, sure. So for example, um, I think that parents shouldn't be sharing a lot of information online and this is sometimes called Sharenting where parents share a lot of information about their children. They post a lot of photos of them. I really don't think parents should do that. I think that what you're doing is you're feeding a machine that is gathering personal information about your children and you're giving it to them. I really think that that's a mistake. Uh, and I would really encourage people not to do it, but also if you're going to post a picture of your child, ask them first if it's okay, because that's sort of a key skill and that way they learn that, yeah, this is what you do. You ask somebody if it's okay. Um, you know, because you might think it's the cutest photo in the world and they might find it incredibly embarrassing <laugh> and that's actually pretty common as kids grow up.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (26:55):

So the older they get, the more likely you want to do that, then you also just, I think wanna model for doing things in a thoughtful way. Like, do I need this app? What are they, what information are they gathering on me? It's fine. That it's just fun. That's, that's a good reason. Fun is a good reason. But you know, you want to sort of talk about it and think about it. You're modeling for them a more thoughtful way of using digital technology instead of just sort of doing it like a lemming without thinking about it. Mm.

Hillary Wilkinson (27:27):

I like that. So let's circle back around to kind of the whole cyber bullying topic if in spite of all of our good intentions and training and modeling of good behavior and all of the things that we're doing in our house, if our child still experiences what they perceive to be cyber bullying, what should we do?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (27:55):

Well, that's really a great question. The first thing to do is to recognize that almost all the time, if kids are being bullied or, uh, picked on online, it's usually with other kids from their school. It's usually not a stranger. It's not gonna be an adult. It's gonna be another child and it's gonna be another child from their school. So I think the first thing to do is to find out the context: What's going on between you and Josephine? Why is she saying these things about you did something happen in school today? Did you get in a fight? Is she upset with you? Give me the context, you know, what's going on? Is there friends of hers who are doing things like you want the larger picture, cuz that's gonna help you. If part of the problem is happening in school, you can get the school involved, let them know what's going on, let them know that your child might need support and that they might need to reduce contact between your child and these other kids.

 And talk to your child about what's happening. Ask them how they're feeling. You know, it, it's a little tricky, especially with pre-teens because there's so much melodrama in raising a pre-teen that, you know, you can feel like, oh my gosh, you know, the world is ending your daughter, your 13 year old daughter is sobbing in your arms. And you're thinking it's incredibly serious. Um, you know, strategize, think about tomorrow, think about how to make it, get better. Think about how to keep your child near their friends who are really gonna be supportive, talk to the schools. They can help you. Talk about taking a break from whatever they were doing online to reduce the opportunity for other people. And, um, you may find that it passes more quickly than you think.

Hillary Wilkinson (29:43): I know when I'm upset, sometimes it just helps to know that somebody else is listening to me. So <laugh> yeah. So just having that, that, that very good conversation with a friend 

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (30:02):

Number one, resiliency skill is having people who like you, who love you, who care about you and who listen to you and that can be friends and that can be your family, but that's how you learn resilience is you learn to be resilient by going back to those people when you're upset and then you feel better.

Hillary Wilkinson (30:20):

Yeah. Okay. So let's think about the other side of cyber bullying. What if, despite I I'm giving you all these, what if, if then scenarios <laugh> but what if instead of our child coming to us from the person who is being affected by that scenario, I'm not so naive is to think that my wonderful children are never going to be on the other side of the coin. Are there any gateway behaviors that might serve as red flags that our child might be engaging in online bullying, like it going the other way?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (31:06):

Um, kudos to you Hilary, because I think it really is hard for a lot of people to accept the possibility that their child could be mean to another child. And I don't think there's a child born who couldn't be mean to other children at times, if they're upset, if they're, um, you know, uh, um, mad at them, if they're in a fight, if they're feeling like that person's attacking them. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why kids might be mean to another kid. Now that doesn't mean that you should say, "oh, you're mad. So I guess it's okay." It shouldn't ever be okay. But, uh, it is important to understand that firstly, sometimes things do happen by accident. And actually we see that pretty regularly where kids are in an online feud. And when you sort of boil it back down and say to them, what started this

Nobody knows. It was like somebody accidentally did something and that completely messed up. Uh, you know, the whole relationship, everybody got upset and, and like, wait a minute, you know, it, it accidents really do happen. So understand that your child might have made an accident that could be affecting how these other kids are dealing with them. Um, also they may not know how to deal with their own feelings. If they're upset with somebody, maybe they need to think about how to deal with that and how to deal with it in a way that's, you know, makes you proud of them.

Hillary Wilkinson (32:41):

I like that coming from a place like assuming positive intent as far as like perhaps this was an accident. So it, I think the tone that you are addressing the issue with is less there. It's less likely to incite a run and hide type response, but more open for communication.  I think the, the worst thing is when you get a phone call in, you know, <laugh>, it's always like on a Tuesday afternoon when everything was going well and you get blindsided by something that happened and you think, oh my gosh, how did I not see this?  Is there, are there any things that you can suggest to avoid that Tuesday afternoon call?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (33:41):

Yeah. Well, you could not answer your phone I guess, but <laugh> than that. Uh, so here's how you avoid it. And, and even this is not a sure thing. Um, you know, those Tuesday afternoon calls are just one of the fun parts of being a parent. Everybody gets 'em, uh, we all need to understand and support other and not vilify people. But, um, I do think that really the thing to do is to talk with your kids often enough about your values and what you really admire in people and what you hope for, for them, and really connect with them so that they can come to you and tell you when something has happened. Now, this is easy said, and it's not so easy to do, but it's not impossible to do it really isn't. You know, if you really spend time talking with your kids about what's going on with them socially, what kinds of things they're seeing, how they're feeling about their friends, what they're doing online, what kinds of things you're seeing, and you're wondering about and thinking about for them, uh, you know, children love to talk about themselves for the most part when they get used to it, especially they'll do it endlessly.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (34:58):

And when they do something bad, you know, the hardest thing is to not just tell them that it's okay and that they didn't mean it. That that's the hardest thing. I have a very vivid memory with one of my kids when he was in first grade and he got in trouble because he and a couple of other boys threw, um, mulch. At a kindergartner, uh, because this kindergartner brought to school this little, it wasn't a beanie baby, but it was one of those fad little stuffed animals. So this kid brings this and people are teasing them. And he throws mulch with this other kid. He gets into big trouble. Uh, and Monday night before the Tuesday afternoon call from the principal, which he knew I was gonna get on Tuesday, Monday night, he starts to cry and says to me, I did this awful thing. And I remember him sitting on my lap crying. And I remember so clearly how I was dying, cuz he was crying so bitterly, I was dying to say to him, it's okay. You know, this isn't the end of the world. You’re six years old and you threw some mulch! You know, life is not over! Like I was dying to say that to him, but I really just bit my tongue. And it was really hard to do that. You know? And I remember saying to him, this is how it feels when you're bad.

Hillary Wilkinson (36:28):

Oh my gosh!!!!!

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (36:33):

It feels, I, I said to him, I know you're feeling awful, but this is how it feels, you know? So then on Tuesday we went out and I made him take his own money and buy one of those little stupid stuffed animals and give it to the kid the next day at school. <laugh> Aww. And then I want you to go give it to them and tell 'em you're sorry. That was the end of it. But you know, I just remember how much I was dying to say to him. It's okay.

Hillary Wilkinson (36:59):

Right. We, we do as moms, we just wanna make everything. Okay. Regardless of, regardless of the role that your child played in the whole thing that's right. So relatable.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (37:10):

That's right. It's really hard. It's really hard.

Hillary Wilkinson (37:14):

We have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Dr. Elizabeth Englander for her healthy screen habit.

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Hillary Wilkinson (37:46):

Fun fact. My guest today was named most valuable educator by the Boston Red Socks and in 2018, Massachusetts governor Charles Baker appointed her to his juvenile justice advisory council. So during the time that many of us were upping our game on sourdough starters and binging Tiger King, she wrote and published three book, all surrounding children's mental health and reentry into post pandemic life. I will link those resources in the show notes on the Healthy Screen Habits website. And now Elizabeth, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. This is a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one you can share with us today?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (38:50):

You know, I think that one of the things that research during the pandemic has really shown is that many more kids than before are struggling with anxiety or depression. And part of this has to do with the really long hours they're spending in front of a screen. Mm. So I think that one of the, the things we need to do is we need to begin to make kids co-owners of their own mental health kids can learn about doing things that can improve their mental health, such as: getting off screens, finding other activities. They enjoy playing board games with their families or going for hikes or walks or going out to see a friend. These are all things anybody might enjoy. And I think we really need to say to kids, you know, this is a challenging time for everybody, but you are a person who can learn how to manage your own mental health too. And let's think about what we can do to get a little bit away from screens and help you improve

Hillary Wilkinson (40:00):

That. I love that our mission at Healthy Screen Habits is to educate and empower families, to create their healthiest habits for screen use. And that really speaks to that empowerment part where you are in having that conversation. You're empowering your children to choose their healthiest life with the, uh, from the mental health component.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (42:09):

So I think empowering kids is actually really important goal right now because kids are struggling so much with different feelings with a lot of screen use. Their social relationships are one of their biggest concerns, but, uh, what they really need to do is to begin taking some responsibility for managing their own mental health. And that is really why we wrote the books that we wrote for, for kids because they take a really humorous tack on teaching kids, how to think about ways to improve their own mental health during a pandemic. And, uh, the idea is to make them active partners and not just passive recipients of adult advice.

When you think about how immersed kids are in technology and you think about how much it has to do with their lives and how rapidly they consume it and alter it and how the landscape is always shifting. They're just gonna have to be our partners in this. I really don't think there's any other way to do it. I think they'll be really powerful partners. I think they'll be really effective partners.

Hillary Wilkinson (43:41):

Yeah. And I, I like how this approach also it, uh, leaves room for growth. Cause as we all know, that's one thing that kids will continue to do is grow and grow <laugh> and

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (43:53):

They sure do. Yes.

Hillary Wilkinson (43:55):

So if our listeners would like to learn more about your work or the Massachusetts Aggression Reduction Center, where can they find you?

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (44:05):

So we have a couple of websites, the Massachusetts aggression reduction center website is MARCcenter.org. The, uh, if they're interested in learning about our resource for the pandemic and social relationships, helping kids with screens and other things during the pandemic, they can go to insanelyawesomebooks.com and they can also look at some of my other materials on elizabethenglander.com.

Hillary Wilkinson (44:32):

You're all over the place.

Dr. Elizabeth Englander (44:34):

I kinda am. Yeah. <laugh> okay.

Hillary Wilkinson (44:37):

As always, I will link all of that information in the show notes of this episode which is season three, episode seven. So you can always go to the healthy screen habits website, click on podcast and scroll through to find those show notes. And thank you so much Dr. Elizabeth Englander for taking the time to chat with me today. Thanks for having me on Hillary.