Hillary Wilkinson: (00:44)

For weeks now, my neighborhood has been filling up with adorable ghosts and jack-o'-lanterns, and I love seeing all the Halloween decor. Some houses go for the fun, whimsical vibe with bright colors and cute black cats. That's totally my house. Well, the others go with all out in the fear factor, skeletons, coffins, creepy animatronics, et cetera. And as I was walking my dog surrounded by all of this, I started thinking, this kind of feels like the world of AI right now, so you gotta stay with me. But on one end, there's the spooky warnings that we're hearing about concerns about ai, encouraging, cheating, harming relationships, widening learning gaps. But then there's also, you hear equal part given to the helpful side, like physicians using AI to pull up medical research in real time. Or today's guest who's using it to support parents and also teach kids media literacy. He's a tech entrepreneur and a father of two boys, ages 14 and 11. When he couldn't find the digital parenting tools he needed, he decided to build them. And in 2022, he co-founded Bright Canary, a service that helps parents guide their kids in today's digital world. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits, Karl Stiller.

Karl Stillner: (02:15)

Thanks, Hilary. Great to be here.

Hillary Wilkinson: (02:18)

Karl, was it your boys that truly motivated you to create Bright Canary, or what was your primary motivation?

Karl Stillner: (02:25)

Yeah, so I'm a long time tech entrepreneur, and after we sold our last business, I was, um, spending some time at T-Mobile, the acquirer. And, um, my kids were just getting into the age where they were starting to use devices more and more. Um, and I learned a really interesting statistic when I was at T-Mobile and that is that, you know, 85% plus of American kids have an iOS device. And I'd been looking, 'cause my kids have iOS devices for solutions that really helped parents navigate this kind of onboarding into the digital world for kids. And I realized there weren't solutions that were built for iOS. They were largely built for Android mm-hmm . And so it seemed like a huge miss, um, in the market, um, given, given the interest or the market share for parents with these devices. And so, um, I, with my co-founder who also has kids at the, you know, roughly the same age, and he has twins that are 15, um, we, we'd long lamented the fact that the tools that did exist, even if they're only for Android, were really focused on blocking and preventing kids from using certain apps or websites, which doesn't really seem that pragmatic anymore.

Karl Stillner: (03:30)

I think it was very pragmatic 10, 15 years ago. But now with device ubiquity where kids have devices at school, on the bus, et cetera, it doesn't seem like trying to prevent them is the best strategy. It is a strategy and it works up to a certain age, but it seems like what's more pragmatic is just keeping parents apprised of what their kids are doing so they can actually step in and be an active parent.

Hillary Wilkinson: (03:52)

Yeah. Yeah. I I kind of like that you recognize the changing, um, you know, there's so much analogy that gets done in digital wellness with driving, right? Mm-hmm . And I think when we look back, you know, the rules of the road have changed over, over the years. I'm, I, you know, happen to live in the Los Angeles area, and I can remember when the high occupancy vehicle or carpool lanes simply didn't exist, you know, and then as our roads start getting more crowded, they kind of incentivized people carpooling by adding this lane that would go zinging by you , while everyone else was, was in gridlock. So it makes sense to me that someone with your background and your foresight was able to say, Hey, this was really great. Just like the LA freeway system was really great for a certain time, but I think we can do better. Mm-hmm . So, um, and that, like, that kind of goes into the, the, uh, philosophies surrounding AI that I was talking about earlier. What, how, from someone, from your, your perspective, if you will, how do, how are you viewing AI at this point?

Karl Stillner: (05:08)

It goes without saying that, you know, we're at the beginning of one of the most dynamic and disruptive phases in human history. And it's not because we haven't had major changes before. I mean, we've had the internet, of course, we have the industrial revolution. What's different this time is the rate of change mm-hmm

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:22)

.

Karl Stillner: (05:22)

And the potential for disruption and how humans spend the majority of their time engaged in work. And I don't really think we've come close to digesting what it means for so many different aspects of our lives, from schooling to relationships, to how humans derive, you know, fulfillment from life. And this has made parenting even more difficult if it wasn't difficult enough. Um, mm-hmm . Parents are off balance and, you know, sure. What the implications are for their kids. Uh, what career paths are still viable, what do they need to learn in school? These are all very relevant questions now that weren't 20 years ago. Yeah.

Hillary Wilkinson: (05:56)

Gosh, not even 12 years ago. Yeah. Not even, it's 12. Totally. Yeah. I have college aged kids. I mean, we're having long talks about like, what is the education of most worth? What is, what is knowledge seeking at this point? Mm-hmm . Because we have information, we have infobesity as it's called, you know, as far as the job market. It's, it's hard to imagine how complete a change AI can direct upon our current world.

Karl Stillner: (06:28)

Right? No, I think that's absolutely correct, and it's because we haven't experienced anything this dramatic this quickly before, and so we don't have anything to draw on. Um, but I do think that, you know, soft skills, you know, being able to relate to others,

Hillary Wilkinson: (06:43)

Isn't that so crazy To me, it's so validating as, I mean, I've got , it's a person who went psychology and then Uhhuh, early childhood development. I'm all about the touchy feely, I'm all about the, you know, I, uh, it's so validating to me to learn that, oh, actually being human is really important. ,

Karl Stillner: (07:06)

It's gonna be more important than ever. Yeah. . Um, because that, that's what's gonna differentiate of course, versus the machines. And so, you know, having empathy, being able to communicate, and I think having grit and perseverance, um, because those are easy skills to lose. Now, um, if AI can do your homework for you, how do you actually develop the sense of perseverance and follow through? Yes. And so, um, you know, I, I'm concerned about the fact that we're starting to deprive our kids of these most critical skills for the future with digital overuse. You know, kids are not outside interacting like they used to with others in the real world. And, um, I think that's a better preparation for the future than actually putting 'em in front of a computer and trying to teach 'em how to use ai because AI is gonna be so integrated and so easy to use that, I don't know if there's any benefit to early training at this point. I think the real benefit comes from teaching your kids how to follow through with tasks and how to relate to others and, and these skills that have been around for a long time, but had been, I think, minimized in the last 10, 15 years as well.

Hillary Wilkinson: (08:10)

It really speaks to the importance of play. Mm-hmm

Karl Stillner: (08:13)

.

Hillary Wilkinson: (08:14)

Absolutely. You know, I mean, just good neighborhood offline play. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. When we come back, we're gonna talk about this service called Bright Canary that Karl co-created.

Hillary Wilkinson: (09:19)

I'm speaking with Karl Stiller, co-founder of Bright Canary, a parental control app designed to help parents monitor their child's online activity and ensure their safety. So Karl, I, I have to admit, like I was so excited to learn, and this is a huge reason why you're here today, , that bright Canary can a monitor across multiple devices and social media platforms, especially with the Apple products. Mm-hmm . That you mentioned earlier that have been prior to this, have been notoriously tough to deal with. Mm-hmm . Um, tough to deal with as far as in the monitoring space, because as you said, you gave us that number earlier, and I'm going to state it again. You had 85% in my, I I need to clearly update my numbers because I have over 80% of US teens using iPhones or iOS systems, despite the known quirks and challenges that come with trying to use monitoring and filtering tools with Apple products. That said, I'd love to hear more about what exactly Bright Canary can do.

Karl Stillner: (10:32)

Yeah. So Bright Canary, as I mentioned earlier, is a tool that's really designed to help parents stay engaged with their kids digitalized. And so the reality is kids are spending six hours plus a day on digital devices outside of school. And parents, you know, this is a, this is a dark spot or black spot, um, for parents. They don't understand what's going on in those six to seven hours a day. And it's very hard to parent if you dunno what your kids are doing in the majority of time they're spending outside of school. And so our notion is not to block or prevent kids because we think that's a little bit of a cat and mouse game that the kids ultimately win, but instead keep the parents apprised what the kids are doing so they can sit down and have engaged conversations with their kids and kind of teach them healthy habits, how to start thriving in a digital world, which will be dealing with, with the rest of their lives.

Karl Stillner: (11:22)

'cause they're at a critical point where they're open to that kind of feedback and, um, they can establish those habits early before, unlike a lot of adults, um, they've, you know, developed these bad habits and it's very hard to undo those. And so it's a critical point of course, of course, in their development. And so, bright Canary is a tool that sits on the parent's device, and it's an application that is used to monitor things like text messaging. So you can see every text your child has sent and received, including photos and videos and includes deleted texts as well. We take all that content that's, um, that we acquire from the text messages. We also take a con content we acquire from what the kid's inputting into the device. So anything they're typing into Discord or Roblox or a social media platform, we get all the in information they're putting into it.

Karl Stillner: (12:11)

And then we also look at what kind of searches are being done on Google, what they're watching on YouTube. And we'd run that all through ai and we provide, um, feedback to the parent in terms of concerning content that we flag. Of course for the parent, we flag themes, these are the type of things your kid is doing online, these are the subject matters, here are some things you might be able to talk to them about. And some of them are negative and some of 'em are positive. Now, did you know your kid's interested in astronomy? That's a great talking point for a parent of a 14-year-old who's starting to push away and isn't sharing all their personal interests. And so the idea is just to keep the parent apprised of what's going on so they can be an active and engaged parent.

Hillary Wilkinson: (12:47)

Is it on searches only or is it on content being viewed

Karl Stillner: (12:52)

As well? So it depends. There's some nuance on YouTube. We can actually see what videos the kids are watching, um, so the actual videos and the parents can watch the videos, their kids will watch if they're interested in doing that. Other platforms like Instagram mm-hmm . You can only see what the kid is searching on, so what they're typing into the device. And so we don't get full visibility into some of the platforms, unfortunately. I wish we did, but yeah. Um, we do not have partnerships with any of the social media platforms, um, to date. Um, they make it very difficult for us to gather the content, so mm-hmm . A little bit of cat and house game on our side with, with these companies, but we are able to show you everything that the kid is typed into these platforms, which in many cases provides a lot of visibility to what they're doing.

Hillary Wilkinson: (13:35)

For sure, for sure. I really appreciate how you, um, approach from sort of a teaching healthy habits, you know, mindset and really, uh, I think that can help focus, uh, the efforts on relationship building and talking about, you know, leading into why certain areas may be problematic or Yeah. Or not. Yeah.

Karl Stillner: (14:01)

Yeah. I mean, I think the good news is that to, in today's day and age, kids are much more aware of the costs associated with using these platforms in excessive manner than they were even two, three years ago. So they've seen,

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:15)

And, and parents

Karl Stillner: (14:16)

And parents, I mean,

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:17)

I, I feel like it's like, it's been an over all awareness awakening.

Karl Stillner: (14:22)

Yes. The research is there, the headlines are there now, the movies, the documentaries, and so kids are smart and they know that there's a cost, and they're much more receptive and open to this than they ever were before. My son just came back from a camp yesterday actually, and there was a bunch of high schoolers at the camp, and, uh, a couple of 'em pulled 'em aside and said, delay using social media as long as you can. I mean, this is what a sophomore is telling my son. That kind of awareness did not exist in the past. So there must,

Hillary Wilkinson: (14:51)

Yeah. And it gives me such hope because I get pushback from some people that are like, Ugh, how can you, how can you still be doing what you're doing? Mm-hmm . You know? And I'm like, oh no, it's, it's so much better. It really truly is. I think the, um, the awareness building also brings with it a certain pain threshold for parents when they're like, oh, what's happening? You know? Right. Because they're recognizing the responsibility. They now have this, you know, I mean, it's just, it, it's not just responsibility, it's all, it's, it's global. It's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. It does not solely exist on, like, I do not want to put the ownness on parents by themselves. I mean, we have to do a lot of work in this area, . Yep. But I do think that tools like you have created are making that job a little more accessible. And so, just to be like completely clear, for any listeners who like me, tend to be total analog thinkers, is, would you qualify bright canary? It does not filter content. It's more of a watchdog. Am I right? So it's it's a fence, not a watchdog.

Karl Stillner: (16:00)

That's right. So we're not trying to prevent the kid from searching on a certain term or, or using a certain application. We're just letting the parent know that the kid is searched on a particular term or watch a particular video or sent a message to someone, uh, that has some concerning content in it. And we're flagging that and we're telling the parent about it so that the parent actually is equipped to sit, you know, to step in and actually do their job as a parent, and then just have those difficult conversations and, and teach the, the child.

Hillary Wilkinson: (16:26)

Lots of families today live in different locations. Mm-hmm . Can bright Canary be shared with co-parents or with grandparents? Does it only go to one person or can it be across others?

Karl Stillner: (16:40)

No, we have the notion in the application where you can share it with, um, a spouse or someone else who's involved in parenting the child as well. Mm-hmm . Okay. So that is built into the application. Um, currently it's only for two. Um, there's potential to add more, but right now it's two people it can be shared with and not very important to get both, you know, both, um, caregivers on the same page.

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:01)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if our kids use Androids or other non-Apple computers, will it work with those

Karl Stillner: (17:11)

Currently they can. Um, there are certain parts of our, of our service that work on Android, but, um, we will plan on launching an Android dedicated application in probably early 2026. And so that'll make a much broader suite of services available to those customers. And so it's something that's on our roadmap, but as a small company, we're trying to focus on, um, like I said, where the market is in the US and, and then expand it of course as well down the road.

Hillary Wilkinson: (17:38)

Sure. Sure. So I have to, I have to ask the big question about school devices. Sure. So are you guys able to monitor anything at school or

Karl Stillner: (17:51)

We're able to monitor Apple specific devices? So if your child has a Apple issued or a school issued iPad mm. Then we can monitor that. Mm-hmm . Um, we do not monitor Chromebooks or PCs currently,

Hillary Wilkinson: (18:04)

Which is tricky 'cause I think. Yeah. Okay. So if teachers or others who work within the realm of, you know, child, child wellness, if you will, if they are someone who are really interested in subscribing to Bright Canary, but they're at a point in their lives where they feel like they really can't take on one more subscription service, do you have any recommendations for that?

Karl Stillner: (18:30)

Yeah, no, thanks for asking that. Hillary. Um, we're a mission-based company and since day one we have offered teachers, mental health professionals and anyone who can't afford a scholarship, free subscriptions to our application. Um, it's on the honor system. We ask people, just write us an email and explain if they're a teacher where they teach or if they're, um, mental health professional where they practice, and then we give them a free subscription for a year to the service. And so we feel like that's very much part of, of our culture and the ethos of what we're trying to create here.

Hillary Wilkinson: (19:01)

Wonderful. There are so many concerns surrounding AI mm-hmm . As someone who is living in the tech development world, what do you think this kind of goes into that teaching aspect and non-fear-based teaching? You know, we always, healthy screen habits, we always try come from a place of hope and help. Right. Okay. . But what are some of the most important messages you think we could give our kids surrounding the use of AI moving forward? When we're grappling with understanding what it even is? Like my, my, like I've referred to myself as an analog brain. I mean, I, I have a hard time even like figuring out what's going on, but mm-hmm . I don't want to send fear-based negative messaging to my kids, but I do want it to be very realistic. So do you have any ideas?

Karl Stillner: (20:01)

Well, I mean, I think there's a, a few things that are important to teach the kids about when it comes to ai. I mean, first understanding that these tools are imperfect and they're getting better all the time. They'll be imperfect for a long period of time in the future. And, you know, they can produce inaccurate, um, misleading content, right? Mm-hmm . And so I think that's a really important thing to teach kids so they don't think it's some kind of gospel, which is, I've even noticed with my kids, they, oh, well, AI said it's this, it must be true. And I think that's really dangerous to assume that everything it's, it's spinning out is always accurate 'cause it's not. Yeah. And so that's a really important, um, fundamental, I think learning for kids. I also think that parents need to understand that kids and adolescents are super sensitive and vulnerable to attachments, to tools that, you know, mimic human behavior, right?

Karl Stillner: (20:54)

Mm-hmm . And so this notion of having an AI bot that's your friend, um, while that may seem really appealing to a kid who is going through puberty, and there may be some value there, I think guarding against an unhealthy attachment where they're depending on it and it's replacing, uh, human to human interaction, I think is really important to keep an eye out for as well, uh, because that's coming down the pike very soon. It's not just kids, of course, adults as well, but adults should be a little better equipped to handle that and understand the context. Then the child who doesn't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex is Of course.

Hillary Wilkinson: (21:29)

Yeah. That being said, I mean, we're hearing all the time about people who are developing relationships with Right. With bots. Right. And, um, yeah. So I agree with you, my, my my concern, and I'm sure I've said it before on here, but is we know that, you know, first, first the attention economy was hacked mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And I feel like that was, you know, a, a huge thing. And the low hanging fruit on that has been stripped at healthy screen habits and other providers of people who are trying to provide help with parenting in our digital world, digital wellness, we used to kind of go across the, the spectrum of neurotransmitters and recognize, say like the attention economy was based upon dopamine, right. And we'd say to insulate your child against this dopamine drip, like, really lean into the other ones, the connection, the oxytocin, the serotonin, you know, those, those others, the endorphins, like really lean into that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Karl Stillner: (22:34)

.

Hillary Wilkinson: (22:35)

My concern is that with ai, what is being breached mm-hmm . Is now we're going after the other neurotransmitters. Mm. So, and it no longer the attention economy Right. Is stripped. Now we're going after the attachment economy. Mm-hmm.

Karl Stillner: (22:52)

Mm-hmm . That's really interesting. So

Hillary Wilkinson: (22:54)

Yeah,

Karl Stillner: (22:55)

I think, I think you're spot on. I think you're right. It's, it's, um, broadening.

Hillary Wilkinson: (23:00)

Yeah. But it's like you said, like you referenced earlier with, um, those things that make us most human mm-hmm . Or the things that end up being very important mm-hmm . And I can't ignore the seduction of the chat bot that tells you how smart you are all the time. Right. I mean, even in trying to meal plan where I'm like, I'm like, I have a bunch of leftover, you know, what, what to do with leftover grilled chicken, you know, and it'll gimme like four recipes. And then I say, okay. Like, yeah, show me the curry chicken recipe, and it'll be like, great choice , you know? Right. And, you know, for someone who's used to cooking meals that you know, may or may not get lukewarm response, I'm like, yes, that is a great choice. And it's healthy too. .

Karl Stillner: (23:56)

Right. Well, and you're constantly getting positive feedback from ai. It makes, um, real world human interactions even more challenging because it's That's great. It's even more, um, it stands even more stark contrast because there's pushback, there's all the various emotions that exist and, you know, I think the risk is that people say, oh, I can't deal with that. And this resides solely in the AI world because it's even more uncomfortable than it used to be.

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:25)

Right.

Karl Stillner: (24:26)

That's a concern.

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:27)

Yeah. AI creates this frictionless environment mm-hmm . And unfortunately Yeah, friction creates heat, but heat, you know, as it turns out, that's where growth occurs as well. Right?

Karl Stillner: (24:38)

Absolutely.

Hillary Wilkinson: (24:39)

Yeah. So we have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Karl for his healthy screen habit.

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HSH Workbook

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Hillary Wilkinson: (26:19)

I'm speaking with Karl Stiller, co-founder of Bright Canary and Karl, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. This is going to be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. What's yours?

Karl Stillner: (26:40)

Well, one thing we have done, uh, for four years or so now is we have set up our wifi router. Uh, so it's attached to a timer. You can get 'em on Amazon for a few bucks, and it basically turns off the wifi router every night at a prescribed time. I think it's currently at nine 30, and it turns it back on at, I think six or six 30 in the morning. And we use that as a way to, um, kind of switch off all the devices in the house that are dependent on wifi, of course. And so even if the kid is one of our kids is figured out a way to get one of their iPads, they still aren't gonna have internet access. And so it's really kind of fail safe in many ways. Now, if your kid has cellular connection, it's not as fail safe, of course, there are ways you can actually get around that.

Karl Stillner: (27:25)

Um, you can set up your device, um, to turn off, um, cellular at a certain time each day as well. And so, um, you can do that through shortcuts. Um, there's a whole Reddit form about this, but, um, short of that, turning off the wifi in a house really seems to be a preventative action for, um, using devices when they probably shouldn't be using 'em and letting kids focus on sleep, which is, I think a really important thing that we haven't discussed yet. And I'm sure you've talked about ad nauseum and many other podcasts because it's so relevant. And that is that, you know, kids are, uh, their sleep is being replaced by digital use. And I think that is, uh, one of, one of the things that cannot be overstated in terms of its impact on kids developing brains.

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:07)

I could not agree more. And I, and I love the, um, the use of this, uh, kind of outside out, you know, we talk about inner walls and outer walls of protection, and so that was kind of like an outer wall of protection mm-hmm . That just shows, goes into place at a certain time. But recognizing that it's also important to talk to your kids about why we're doing this. Right. You know? That's right. And that's where you get the biggest buy-in. And

Karl Stillner: (28:35)

That's something that Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It's something I think is really important on all this to have dialogue with your kids about, and we advocate for that with BrightCanary is parents sit down and explain why they're using services like Bright Canary as a condition of using a device and have an open and transparent dialogue. And I think most parents would be surprised how receptive their kids are if they're ex if it's explained to them.

Hillary Wilkinson: (28:57)

I completely agree. It's the same going back to the driving analogy. Yeah. We teach our kids the rules of the road and we explain why. Like, you know, when you're going to make a left hand turn, don't turn your wheel all the way to the left. 'cause if you get hit's gonna drive you this way. You know, I mean, it's, it's just like that. So you guys are, uh, I would never wanna call anybody the DMV , but, but you're far more interesting than the DMV.

Karl Stillner: (29:29)

Thank you . I appreciate that. .

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:33)

And, and now for a compliment, you've never received .

Karl Stillner: (29:35)

Yeah, that's right. That's a first.

Hillary Wilkinson: (29:38)

Okay. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show as well as a link to the Bright Canary website by visiting the show notes for this episode. And you do this by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button to find this episode. Karl, thank you so much for being here, for being a super dad who saw a problem, solve the problem, and is letting others benefit from it.

Karl Stillner: (30:04)

Thanks, Hillary. I appreciate everything you guys are doing for raising awareness with parents as well.

Hillary Wilkinson: (30:11)

For more information, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Healthy Screen Habits. Make sure to visit our website, healthyscreenhabits.org, where you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or via RSS so you'll never miss an episode. It's free, it's fun, and you get a healthy new screen habit each week. While you're at it, if you found value in this show, we'd appreciate you giving us a quick rating. It really does help other people find us and spread the word of healthy screen habits. Or if you'd simply like to tell a friend, we'd love that too. I so appreciate you spending your time with me this week, and I look forward to learning more healthy habits together.