S3 Episode 2: Mom, Why Can’t I Have More Screentime? // Dr. Nina Shapiro from The Ultimate Kids Guide To Being Super Healthy

We adults have issues with screen time as well as children-- if not more so-- and a lot of the habits, good or bad, that kids get, they're getting it from us.

-Dr. Nina Shapiro

Healthy Screen Habits Takeaway

For More Info:

Dr. Nina Shapiro’s website:

http://drninashapiro.com/

Book: "Ultimate Kids' Guide to Being Super Healthy: What You Need To Know About Nutrition, Exercise, Sleep, Hygiene, Stress, Screen Time, and More"

Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson:

It's January! As we kick off a new year, we tend to focus on resetting healthy habits and tweaking family behavior to help reach long term goals. Many times though, if we just set up arbitrary frameworks for reaching our resolutions, we don't necessarily tend to stick with them. Often, our kids keep us on our toes. Kind of wanting to know the why behind the reasons why we adults are enforcing certain behaviors, getting back to clean eating, et cetera. And if this sounds even a little bit familiar, I have great news for you. I have a brand new resource! It's called The Ultimate Kids Guide To Being Super Healthy -  Everything You need to know about nutrition, exercise, sleep, hygiene, stress, screen, time and more. It's been written to answer all of these questions behind why we adults tend to be obsessed with certain rituals, habits, behaviors. And my guest today is the author! Dr. Nina Shapiro has been taking care of children for nearly 25 years as a professor and a director of the pediatric ear nose and throat surgery at Mattel Children's Hospital at UCLA. I have so many questions. I can't wait to dive in. Welcome to the healthy screen habits podcast asked,

Dr. Nina Shapiro (01:43):

Thank you so much. Great to be here and happy new year!

Hillary Willkinson (01:47):

Happy New Year to you! So Nina, one of the things I really enjoyed about the format of The Ultimate Kids Guide To Being Super Healthy is this sort of way in which you title each chapter, they all ask a question, which I think, you know, as parents, we tend to be bombarded by the why's you have what's so good about exercise. Why can't I stay up later? Or why do I have to take medicine? And today's most critical topic for, you know, in regards to healthy screen habits. I love chapter eight. Why can't I have more screen time? So I'm gonna stay with your format and start with the "why." Why this book? And why right now?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (02:32):

So why this book? So I'm a parent and I also take care of children for a living. And I think it's really important, especially nowadays we've we are, you know, living through a pandemic of a century or more. We've never really experienced this and our children are living through it too. And I think they have become so aware of health. They hear things, they MIS hear things. They feel the parents' fears about what's going on with healthcare and safety and hygiene and all that goes with it. And lifestyle changes, you know, kids who are home on zoom school or on their screens for a year or two, it, it really makes them so much more aware. But I, I really think it's important that kids understand why things are happening, what is happening, why their lives have been turned upside down and what they can do to participate in that. And the book is really my, my goal is to empower kids. It's not to just say, here's what you're, we're telling you to do. And here's why so just do it. It's really to get them involved in the decision making and in the process. So they feel good about doing these things as well. And it doesn't just feel like a task that their parent or their teacher or some authority is, is telling them or asking them to do.

Hillary Willkinson (04:05):

And I like how you approach it from this very, it's fun to, it's fun to talk to you after reading the book, because I can, I can hear your voice in the words of the book. It's very conversational, the way you write it. You know, it's almost, I feel like when I was writing it, you ask questions. Like, "Did you notice I said this and such?" You know, it's like you're checking back in with the reader. And I thought that was super effective.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (04:29):

Thanks. And I think also, you know, especially when we talk about screen time and it really, it really includes all of the chapters, but screen time, especially because we adults are, I don't wanna use the we're guilty, cause that implies something negative, but we adults have issues with screen time as well as children do. And if not more so, and a lot of the habits good or bad that kids get, they're getting it from us. And so I acknowledge that, especially in the screen chapter saying your adult is probably having trouble getting off their screen too. So let's work on this together. This is not just something that: kids do screen time too much and let's get them off their screens! Because we need to work on it too. And I think also if children here that we're not perfect and we're on our screens too much, and let's all get off our screens a little bit more and get out and exercise and do something different. I think kids will feel better about it.

Hillary Willkinson (05:25):

Right. I agree. So, um, in your experience as a doctor, would you say that living through this pandemic, has affected, how kids perceive their own physical and mental health? I, you know,  as a parent, I kind of feel like I, I have a gut feel for the kids in my community, but would you say kids overall, like how are, how are we doing as far as when we were in the midst of it, it was very, definitely a critical mass time, but moving forward, I'm just, I'm looking, is there a message of hope coming out of this time?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (06:08):

You know, I really hope so. So a couple things that I've seen, uh, taking care of children, one is that here's a really great thing. This is just very simple is that I've seen fewer ill children than I've ever seen in 25 years of taking care of children. We don't see a lot of colds. We don't see a lot of coughs. There wasn't sort of a peak of something called RSV, which is a respiratory virus. We saw it a lot in the summer. Um, we're starting to see some colds again in kids, but though that has dropped. So kids are actually healthier from a, just a physical standpoint. Um, mental health wise. That's been interesting too. I think a lot of kids appreciate school more. They appreciate being in school. You, rarely hear kids by October, November saying, "oh, I can't wait to go to school.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (06:54):

I wanna go back to school." They're usually sort of tired after the first four to six weeks of school and they wanna stay home. Kids do not wanna stay home anymore. So that's actually really nice. Um, one of the big negatives I've seen is I've seen a lot more sort of mental health related physical problems, meaning kids with new throat clearing, feelings of, of headaches, pain, uh, ear pain, especially from wearing headphones and earbuds all day, um, during zoom school. So a lot of sort of nonsurgical, non necessarily medical issues related to my practice, um, that I'm seeing. And I, I am sure that this is from the stress of the pain pandemic.

Hillary Willkinson (07:39):

Sure. And that, that increased use of the technology, like you said, like I never even would've thought about the, the increased ear pain, but I completely, I understand how that would be if you've been on school all day and then you're using tech to socialize as well. Thank you. I'm interested to hear more, but first we have to take a little break.

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Hillary Willkinson (08:13):

My guest today is Dr. Nina Shapiro, her knack for turning evidence based scientific research into plain English, led her to author the book, The Ultimate Kids Guide To Being Super Healthy. When I received the copy of my book, I kind of immediately felt like it was something that I would see and pick up at one of like, say my kids' Scholastic book fairs, you know, something along those lines. Is this how you, like, how do you see? So knowing that it's a super approachable book, um, how do you see it being used within the home? Is this a book that you see, like kids reading independently? Is this something you recommend parents do as a read aloud? Like what, what's your vision?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (09:03):

So my vision for the book, it would be great to have it in schools because I think it is, you know, it does provide a lot of sound scientific information for kids. Uh, as far as how it can be used. The voice that I use can be taken in by say a five or six or seven year old, the reading level may be a little bit higher. And that obviously depends on the child. Certainly a 7, 8, 9 year old would have no problems reading this independently. So for the younger kids, because the language is accessible to younger children, um, it can be read with a parent or with an older sibling or an older friend, you know, if they have a school friend who wants to read it with them, so it can be read together. I think there'll be some new information for a lot of new information for parents and caregivers as well.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (09:51):

So they may be interested in reading it and, and it can, you know, it also, it's not, uh, the end point, my goal, one of my goals of the book is that it will raise more questions and more interest and a child or a parent may find an interest in one of the chapters say they're interested in, in sleep behavior or exercise physiology or, or screentime of course, and they may wanna learn more. So it's, it provides a taste of several areas. And my goal is also that they would, it would, it would sort of spark their interest in health and science and, and wanting to sort of dive a little deeper going forward.

Hillary Willkinson (10:31):

Right. Right. I love that encouraging kind of a pattern of lifelong learning, I think that's beautiful. And one of the things that I really appreciate about the book is that you don't, you don't dumb down the language at all. Instead what you did is you included this glossary in the back. So there are words that maybe if people are unfamiliar with, you can always go back, you know, for older kids, if they wanna refer to that or not. So it's, it's very, very accessible. So as far as research goes, swinging it kind of back around to our topic of screen time. You know, anytime you go to the grocery store, anytime you go to the park, you're seeing kids from infancy forward, honestly, learning to interact with screens. And in your opinion, as a physician, is this like, how can this affect their growth?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (11:30):

It's really, you know, it's, I know screen, you know, there's so much good to screens, but it, but it, it does make me so sad when I see that at screens are used so frequently, especially in such young young children. And it does affect their brain growth. Neurons, which are the, the, the cells inside the nervous system are growing and expanding and stretching in early infancy and later into childhood. And the reason that they are able to do this is that children are living new experiences at all times. And, and that doesn't have to be in school, reading a book or, or, or having a math lesson, it's just experiencing the world. And when a child is on a screen, it's a very passive experience. It moves very quickly and it sort of gives those neurons a break and they stop really developing. And that's okay for a brief period of time to have a little break, but that really shouldn't be the main way that a child is experiencing something new, their language development.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (12:37):

There have been many studies and ongoing studies showing that language development is, is more delayed in children who are learning from screens, um, reading development, social interaction. Um, we've we hear this over and over again, the American Academy of Pediatrics strongly, you know, recommends no screen time at all, or minimal screen time before age, two years. And even after that minimal screen time, because it, it has it it's showing how much of a deficit it can lead to in, in child development. And this is at a very basic science level, not just, "Oh, they’re on their screen, too much". There's actually good data, uh, backing that up.

Hillary Willkinson (13:18):

Right. And there's great data. There's great neuroscience data, even between gray matter and white matter as far as a reduction in white matter, which in the brain is kind of, I, I think of it and this is like, I mean, very rudimentary, but the, grey matter of the brain is kind of like the subject matter areas with the white matter, being the highways in between to be able to access them. And what science has shown using FMRIs is that kids who are on screens more have a decrease that white matter material. So  the pathways between the subject areas. Is it the the learning areas is not as strong, so it's

Dr. Nina Shapiro (14:07):

Right. Pretty, yeah. It's, it's amazing. And it's, you know, the data's right there and these FM MRIs are functional MRIs. Um, I think it's called the ABCD study. If anyone wants to look it up, it's easy to, it's a very catchy name of the study that's ongoing, um, you know, can show in real time, not just in the still image, but in the function of the brain, how it's having a negative impact. It's, it's quite startling.

Hillary Willkinson (14:32):

Actually. I agree. I agree. Thank you for touching on that. Okay. So as, uh, I would say as like a physician in, in your specialty and in pediatrics, et cetera, do you have any primary health concerns surrounding kids surrounding overuse of screens? I mean, we're talking about brain development, but are there other physical manifestations that maybe you address in the book or anything?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (14:59):

Yeah, I think that, you know, there, there are a couple things specifically to screen time that can affect kids. Um, one of them actually don't mention it in the book, but I think it's really important, especially now that see kids are going back to school and we see kids, certainly teenagers and preteens standing at the bus stops. And they're getting that hunch back again from standing on their, you know, standing up with a big backpack on their back and then looking down at their screen and they're all sort of hunched over. Um, so that has been a physical issue due to screen time and older kids. Certainly, um, younger kids don't usually, uh, have access to phones or screens, or, you know, while they're in school necessarily, or certainly not on the bus, but that's for older kids. And then sleep is very much affected by screen time.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (15:44):

And that goes for kids and adults. And it's not only the screen, it's also the light of the screen and the stimulation, the brain stimulation close to bedtime that they're getting from their screen. So that ha even if they are getting an adequate number of hours of sleep, the use of screen time, and again, we are all, all doing this. I know that. And you know, I am certainly not, um, someone who is not doing this, like I will be, I hate to word the, use the word guilty, but again, I am guilty as charged using a screen right before bedtime affects the sleep quality, affects the sleep cycles negatively. It can reduce the release of something called melatonin, so you can have trouble falling asleep and have trouble staying asleep, have trouble getting into those deep stages of sleep. If you're using your screens close to bedtime.

Hillary Willkinson (16:33):

Why is that sleep so critical, particularly for kids? Cause a lot of, a lot of kids will get into that. You kind of go into this in your chapter of, you know, why do I have to go to sleep? Why do I have that bedtime? Like what, what is that important part of sleep?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (16:49):

Uh, sleep is so important for kids. It's it's, you know, and, and especially for young kids. And I tell this to the parents: sleep is almost half of their day. So if you think of half of their 24 hour day is sleep, it has to be pretty important if they really need 11, 12 hours of sleep per night. And during that time, it's not just, and this is what I say to the kids, cuz most kids feel like sleep is just doing nothing. It's a waste of time. They're missing out. Um, they have FOMO cause they're sleeping and everyone else is awake and sleep is so important for everything else. It helps their growth. It helps their brain development. It helps their heart and lungs. It gives them energy for the next day. They may not realize that they may not feel that directly. Um, but they do feel it if they don't get a good night's sleep, unfortunately, and they may not feel it if it happens once and even twice, but if it happens on a regular basis, then it's gonna start to impact their learning, their growth, their development, their ability to exercise, their ability to be nice with their friends and their family. Um, so sleep is so important, especially for kids.

Hillary Willkinson (18:00):

Right. And me too. <laugh> adults too. Yes,

Dr. Nina Shapiro (18:05):

Me too. Again, I'm I'm guilty as charged. I don't get as much sleep as I should.

Hillary Willkinson (18:11):

Oh I, yeah, I hear you. <laugh>. So also, so we've talked about like the, the inactive, although sleep is this weird, highly active inactivity when you consider all the brain activity that's happening in the brain cleansing that's happening during our sleep patterns, but still we kind of tend to view it as this inactive time. Let's also talk about a more active time in our day, which would be exercise. And a lot of kids know that exercise, they, they, you know, inherently know that exercise is good. It's important to good health, but they still opt for the screens over the sweat. And do you have any tips for parents on how to get kids, how to transition off of screens and promote and enforce physical activity or keep it fun?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (19:03):

So that I think fun is the key word for that. And I think, you know, it's ideally if you are an adult who enjoys exercise and exercises and models that for your children, I think that really helps things. And know not everybody likes the same type of exercise. Not everybody likes soccer, not everybody likes basketball or running or biking, but there is something fun for everyone. And I think that depending on, you know, what your child is interested in doing for exercise, that's what they should do. There's no best exercise. There's no bad exercise unless it's dangerous. So, and, and it doesn't have to be a ball sport or, you know, a, a sport with wheels. It could be hiking, it could be going for nature walks. It doesn't have to be a varsity sport. Um, but I think if they find something fun and it may not be what all their other friends are doing, but it may be what they love to do.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (20:03):

They may wanna be a fencer. They wanna try that. Um, there's so many ways that exercise can be fun. And I think, if it's not fun there it's gonna be a chore and they're not gonna like it. And it's gonna start to seem like a punishment and we don't wanna turn that into, you know, we don't wanna, I, I like to sort of remove the reward system of screens where the screen is, the treat and everything else is, is sort of the, the trick or the trouble. And, you know, so I think that you just have to be a little patient and again, every child is different. You may have several children who like different things and, and that's fine, but there, there has to be something indoors, outdoors, whatever it is. Um, I think that really needs to be encouraged and you need to do it with them, especially when they're young. Yeah,

Hillary Willkinson (20:52):

Yeah, no. And have fun with them as well. Exactly.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (20:56):

Yeah.

Hillary Willkinson (20:57):

Yeah. So is there anything that you wish kind of like if you had, you know, we're both in Southern California, if you could take out a, a bill board space on the 405, which is, which is a major freeway artery running right through downtown LA, um, if you could take out that billboard space, is there something that you wish all parents knew about screen usage and kids?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (21:24):

You know, I think that, I don't know if I could fit this on a billboard, but I think <laugh>,

Hillary Willkinson (21:29):

That's a big challenge!

Dr. Nina Shapiro (21:30):

I think something to just acknowledge is that screens are not all bad, but sure there, but there's, there is some bad to them and, you know, I think we have to just acknowledge that screens are here to stay and, um, we to use them safely and we need to, you know, especially when it comes to introducing them to our children, um, that we need to consider that in moderation and do it with our children. I think that's really important that, you know, you can't just give your 18 month old, a screen or your three year old, a screen, you need to participate in what they're watching, especially early on. I don't know if that'll fit on a billboard. Right.

Hillary Willkinson (22:14):

<laugh> maybe we can, uh, you know, take out two,

Dr. Nina Shapiro (22:17):

One of those rotating billboards.

Hillary Willkinson (22:19):

Exactly. Yeah. No, but what I think, I, I agree with you. I think it's, um, it's oh, at Healthy Screen Habits, we are not anti-technology. We are Pro intentional use of technology and it's, it goes back to intention surrounding your usage of tech. And, um, I think it's very important just to revisit that. And I think that that's kind of one thing that your book does is get people to thinking about the whys behind. We do certain things. So when we come back after this short break, I'm going to ask Dr. Shapiro for her healthy screen habit.

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Hillary Willkinson (23:09):

We're back, I'm talking with Dr. Nina Shapiro, physician and author of The Ultimate Kids Guide To Being Super Healthy: What you need to know about nutrition at exercise, sleep hygiene, stress, screen, time and more. On every episode, I ask our guests for a healthy screen habit. This is a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one you can share with us today?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (23:49):

We actually do have a healthy screen habit that we use in our home and that is adults and children included. And what we do, and what I strongly recommend is that you have one or two or however much space. You need charging stations for all technology every evening when everybody's going to bed technology, unless it's really, really cumbersome and difficult to get out of your bedroom. If you have a huge desk top computer on your desk, that's one thing. But in general, all portable screens should be charged outside of bedrooms in a kitchen, in a living room, in a den. Um, there should be one or two charging stations. So everything is being charged outside of bedrooms. It has become reflex now for people to reach for screen. First thing they do when they wake up in the morning or right before they go to bed. And that should really not be in a place where you're sleeping. So charging station for everybody, you don't see those lights, you don't see those alerts. You should turn off your, your, you know, your screens. If they make funny beeps, unless you're a surgeon on call like me, I could know ever turn off my funny beeps because it could be the hospital calling, but in general, those should be off at night and in an area away from bedrooms,

Hillary Willkinson (26:18):

Right We recommend actually using the, the, I mean, it may not, it might not work in all homes, but we recommend using the master bathroom. And the reason why is we have many, many, many stories of very creative teens <laugh> and tweens who are helping themselves to the family charging stations at all hours. And that leads into a whole, I mean, that, that is again interrupting sleep patterns. And as well as it's gets into that, does anything good happen after, you know, 11:00 PM or anything along those lines? <laugh> So, so that's yeah. So that's where, that's where we recommend. I also know that they make, um, for families who choose this, they use different products. They make products that are like lock boxes, where people go in and put them down.  If you're unable to use your say master bathroom, and you feel like that's a tool that is necessary in your own home, but I could not agree with you more on the collecting. Just kind of like getting all the technology corralled and charged in one spot and protecting the sleep for sure.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (27:34):

Thank you.

Hillary Willkinson (27:35):

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your work. I'll definitely link your book in the show notes to this episode, which is Season three, Episode two, but is there anywhere else you'd like to direct people to look for it or for more information on the work that you do?

Dr. Nina Shapiro (27:54):

Uh, so sure. So for more information on, um, my work, my website is Dr. Nina shapiro.com, which is Dr. Nina shapiro.com. Um, the book is available on Amazon Barnes and noble and independent bookstores. So I strongly encourage you to either go to your independent bookstore website or actually in person if possible, because I really wanna support, uh, independent bookstores. They are alive and thriving, and, uh, they will have my book and there's certainly some children's bookstores, uh, in our neighborhood and hopefully in yours where you can get the book as well.

Hillary Willkinson (28:32):

Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Dr. Nina Shapiro (28:34):

Thank you