S4 Episode 2: An Uncommon Sense Approach to Parenting With Tech // Allana Robinson of UnCommon Sense Parenting

“I teach my clients to bookend screen time with regulating  activities.  Regulating activities are those activities that really fulfill your child's sensory needs and put them into a state of flow.”

- Allana Robinson

Healthy Screen Habits Takeaway

Resources

For More Info:

Uncommon Sense Parenting-
https://www.allanarobinson.com

Resources listed on episode:

The Time Timer-

https://www.timetimer.com

or buy at our HSH Amazon Marketplace:

Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson (00:08):

I am a big believer in the concept of bridging. This is that concept of sparking interest online and bridging it to an outdoor activity. For example, like finding paper, airplane designs online, and then go build them and fly them outside, research insects in your air, and then go on a bug hunt. So today's guest knows all about the curiosity and wonder of early childhood as parenting coach and CEO of uncommon sense parenting. She's also the host of the mudroom podcast and a registered early childhood educator Allana Robinson supports parents of toddlers, preschoolers, and kindergartners in understanding why their children are misbehaving and how to fix it without yelling, shaming or time outs. I love this very peaceful approach to early childhood. Welcome to the healthy screen habits podcast, Allana Robinson.

Allana Robinson (01:59):

Thank you so much for having me.

Hillary Wilkinson (02:02):

So Allana , I'm interested to hear a little bit about your background. How did you get started in this kind of parent coaching space?

Allana Robinson (02:10):

Yeah, so I was an early interventionist in Edmonton, Alberta for about 10 ish years, um, prior to moving into parent coaching. And I worked with every stripe of kiddo that you can think of all the way from completely typical run of the mill speech delay up to one of my clients is one of three children in   North America with their specific diagnosis. So I, I have run the gamut. There's very little that children can do that surprises me anymore. And I loved it. I absolutely adored it. Um, but when I got pregnant with my oldest son, um, I was having some physical difficulties keeping up with these very high needs kids. And I rolled over into a parent coaching role and I loved it. I thought I was gonna hate it, but I loved it. And I could see how big of an impact it had when parents understood what was going on with their kids and the gains that their children made when the parents were continuing using the strategies that their children were learning in therapy in the home.

Allana Robinson (03:13):

And so I kept doing that while I was on maternity leave remotely and my husband’s in the Canadian forces. And we got posted right after my maternity leave ended, to what I affectionately call the middle of nowhere. And so where we currently live is extremely rural. There are very few services, there are no jobs. And so I was kind of bored out of my mind and I decided to just keep up with this remote parent coaching gig that I had started while I was on maternity leave and things kind of snowballed from there. Um, after about a year I was burning out though, cause I had a huge wait list of parents and not enough time in the day to actually care for them. And so we very slowly rolled it over, into a group-coaching program, tested it out a little bit. And for the last six years, that's what we've been running is a group coaching program for parents who are at their end of the rope with their children's behavior.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:13):

Wow. So you were pre-pandemic in your remote coaching. So this was like nothing but a thing for you!

Allana Robinson (04:20):

Very, yeah, well, it was, I was very fortunate when the pandemic hit, we were able to just expand and welcome in all these parents who were now stuck at home with their kids and you know, the pandemic, if nothing else, when you're stuck at home with your children, it really highlights the, um, behaviors that maybe were flying under the radar before, while they were at daycare and preschool. So for sure, we were very fortunate to be able to support thousands of parents during this.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:47):

Uncommon Sense’s mission is to empower parents as the expert on their own child and create an inclusive world full of, of calm, competent, confident kids. I like how this puts the parent in the expert seat, but I can imagine also that it feels foreign to parents who maybe have never worked with kids prior to having their own. So how I, I just can imagine kind of the challenges, how do you coach people into sort of feeling that role of expertise?

Allana Robinson (05:28):

I approach everything from a developmental standpoint. I want parents to understand child development, how their child's brain is working and developing and the different challenges that come up along the way, because I find it makes parents more empathetic when they understand what's going on under the hood. So to speak, when you understand why your child is behaving, the way that they behave, it's a lot easier to pick appropriate tactics and strategies. And when you pick appropriate tactics and strategies, you generally get the outcome that you're looking for. So we focus entirely on educating parents on child development and helping them take that theoretical knowledge and actually implement it into everyday strategies so that when something's going on, they can accurately diagnose it and take appropriate action.

Hillary Wilkinson (06:17):

It completely holds hands with our mission at healthy screen habits, which is educating and empowering families to create their own healthiest screen habits. But, um, I do believe that education, I, we share a background in education, so I, it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me that we're, that we're aligned. Okay. Another thing that I love about your philosophy is it seems to kind of focus on balance. And this is really tricky when dealing with tech, we know that apps and games are not designed to allow for self-regulation, they're designed to keep and hold user attention.  Really tricky when you're dealing with, you know, pre you know, with, with immature brains. Yeah. As well as, but I mean, I, to use immature, it sounds negative. I'm not meaning that they're immature by design. I mean, they're developmentally appropriate brains. Yeah. As well as any of our neuro diverse population.

 So how do you recommend we balance this overstimulation our kids get when using tech?

Allana Robinson (07:45):

So I teach my clients to bookend screen time with regulation, activities and regulation or activities. Are those activities that really fulfill your child's sensory needs and put them into that state of flow. Um, a lot of parents will say to me when we first start working together, well, the only time that they're calm is when they're watching TV. And it's because parents have conflated this concept of quiet and calm. When we're talking about calm, we're talking about the state of our nervous system. When we're talking about quiet, we're talking about sitting still and having a shut mouth and yes, screen time does make children quiet, but is it, it is extremely stimulating to our nervous system. And that's why we generally see children having these big behaviors when we take away the tablet or we turn off the TV. Right? So to counteract that I always recommend to my clients, that they bookend that time with activities that provide their children with the kind of sensory input that their child finds regulating. So, you know, I'll use my own children. As an example, my youngest loves to run. It is his preferred activity. If he is bored out of his mind, you're gonna find him running.  To the point where he usually does at least two, five Ks a day.

Hillary Wilkinson (09:10):

Oh wow!

Allana Robinson (09:11):

Yeah, he loves running. So if he wants to be on his tablet, if he's gonna be watching TV, that's fine. But Hey buddy, can you go for a run first? And it doesn't have to be a 5k run, but he's gonna take 10 minutes and he's either gonna run around our yard or he is gonna run around our block. And then he is gonna come back. He's gonna do his screen time when the tablet goes away, “Hey, why don't you go for a quick run? And then we're gonna move on to the next thing.” So I make sure that he's getting that sensory input before and after to reregulate his nervous system after he's engaged with screens, because if I don't, he's just a pain in the ass.

Hillary Wilkinson (09:50):

Well, and the thing I really like about that also is you, um, by teaching them how to do that, as they get older, they're also going to independently strive for that regulation and that balance, which is what you want to set up for long term success.

Allana Robinson (10:10):

It's a habit

Allana Robinson (10:13):

We're talking about screen time habits and the more children are used to being regulated. The more they're going to strive to remain regulated. The more used they are to being dysregulated, the more that's gonna feel normal to them. And they're going to have the opposite reaction when they get regulated. They're going to try to hyper arouse themselves again, because feeling regulated feels dangerous and different,

Hillary Wilkinson (10:38):

Right.

Allana Robinson (10:39):

So we wanna create that habit of regulation for our children.

Hillary Wilkinson (10:42):

Right.  Because while, although in our teen years, the feeling dangerous and different leads to an excitement, as a child, feeling dangerous and different is a point of uncomfortability.

Allana Robinson (10:55):

Well, and it creates those big behavior, right? Because if we're looking at like, um, children using their limbs system and being in that defense mode, being very, very emotional irrational, when they're feeling, when they're using their limbic system, primarily they can't learn, right. That's not where learning happens in the brain. It actually blocks the learning because if we don't have enough energy, we'll stop sending resources to it. Which means that we can't use our language. We can't use our executive functioning skills. We can't use our learning, our reasoning skills, like none of that is functioning. So we're just operating with emotions, memories, safety, and instinct and intuition. So if children are hyper aroused, if they're not calm, they can't learn. Right. And when, so then we see parents trying to reason with these kids, especially, you know, I've been in so many restaurants, airports where the parents trying to take away the screen time and the child's like freaking out, the parents are trying to reason with them. Like, it's okay. You can have it back when we get home or when, after we get on the plane and the kid's freaking out, they can't hear you. They can't understand what you're saying because the part of their brain that processes reasons physically isn't getting any resources

Hillary Wilkinson (12:13):

Turned off. Right?

Allana Robinson (12:15):

Exactly. It's disconnected. So again, with understanding, what's going on underneath the hood, if you know that your child is dysregulated and that screen time is going to disregulate them, you can plan for that. And it makes having those behavior, conversations, and interventions, just so much easier.

Hillary Wilkinson (12:35):

Excellent. So we have to take a break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Allana for more of these fantastic parenting tips on keeping boundaries around screen time.

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Hillary Wilkinson (14:51):

My guest is Allana Robinson. She's a mom of two and a military wife. She also hosts the Mud Room, which is a parenting podcast that delivers these great little nuggets of advice to parents of toddlers, preschoolers, and kindergartners on how to set your family up for success. I kind of view it like the mud room to your house. So, you know, the mud room of your house helps set you up for maintaining your sanity in your home. And that's, I love the name of your podcast. So Allana. I have to tell you anytime I'm having difficulty with the maintenance of sanity in my own home, if I can do what you were just talking about before the break of clicking into the understanding of those developmental stages it helps me kind of maintain objectivity and not get pulled down the rabbit hole. It's kind of like what you were talking about,  about that peeking under the hood. I love that analogy. So with your background, you clearly really get brain development. And, um, I'm kind of wondering, so when we are parenting our children with tech, we often experience this sort of what I'm just gonna call like “tech defiance”, or stalling or the best, best of all for me is blatantly  ignoring of family boundaries. Uh, what sorts of tips or techniques can you recommend that would set us up for success in managing this?

Allana Robinson (16:24):

Absolutely. So the first thing would be to create predictability and consistency around your screen time. So I always say to my client, schedule it into your day and try as much as possible like life happens, but as much as possible, try to have screen time at a predictable time of day for your children. And so I usually recommend using, like, a visual schedule for young kids because they can't read yet. So they just need a series of pictures to tell them what's gonna happen throughout the day. And one of those things is: when you're gonna get your tablet or when you get to watch TV. And so like my children know that if they're home after lunch, that is screen time. Don't ask mom before that, don't ask mom after that, after lunch is when you get to go get your tablet, you get to go turn on the TV.

Allana Robinson (17:09):

And that frees them up from trying to use self-monitoring skills because often you'll hear them like badgering. You like, can I have it now? Can I have it now? Can I have it now? And you're like, no, no, no, no. I told you if it's at a predictable and consistent time of day, then that becomes routine and routines really help children to feel safe and in control.  They give that nice firm boundary that they know they can badger you all they want, but after a while, they're like, this is never going to produce a different outcome. So they just stop. And so creating that predictability and consistency is really, really important. Um, using visuals to help them see how much time they have. Um, I know that your viewers can't see me right now, but you can see behind me, I have a visual timer.

Allana Robinson (17:59):

And so this is like a little timer that when you set it, the time shows up in a different color. And then as the time goes away, the color gets smaller. And this really works with children's natural tendency to conflate quantity in size. There's several studies that have been done with young kids where, you know, if you get six cookies and give them a stack of three cookies, or you set out the other three in a line toddlers, preschoolers, kindergartners will also almost universally choose the stack of cookies over the three set out next to each other because in their mind, the stack is bigger and therefore there are more cookies in that stack. So the visual timer works really well with that natural tendency to conflate quantity and size, because the more color showing the more time they have, the less colored showing, the less time they have. And again, it frees them up from you monitoring them cuz right when you're in something and you're enjoying it, you're in that state of flow -five minutes feels like five seconds. Right? 

Hillary Wilkinson (19:14):

I think we all, yeah. I mean,

Allana Robinson (19:15):

We've all been there where you,

Hillary Wilkinson (19:18):

Right? The phrase time flies when you're having fun, exists for a reason.

Allana Robinson (19:22):

Exactly. Exactly. So when you say to your child, Hey, you have five more minutes with the tablet and then we're putting it away. They go into their little state of flow and then it feels like you turn around and immediately go, okay, time's up, turn it off. And they're like, hell, you just said, I had five minutes. Whereas with the visual timer, they can see the five minutes. They can look up and reference it to see that time getting smaller and smaller. So when you say, “okay, time's up”, it doesn't feel like it's gone by in a blink. And they actually see the passage of time rather than just having to monitor it. So create that trust between you and your child, that you're not just randomly gonna take it away from them. And even if that's not your MO you've never done that. It can feel that way. A lot of times to young kids cuz time is so abstract.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:14):

Right. Right. I love that. Um, so you held up this visual timer that I don't know that everybody would be able to, uh, visualize.. Um, is there a brand that you recommend?

Allana Robinson (20:28):

Yeah, this is called a time timer.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:30):

Time timer. Okay.

Allana Robinson (20:32):

And all different kinds of lengths. This one's a two hour one. They come in a five minute, one, a 20 minute one, which I find really useful for screen time. A one hour one and a two hour one.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:42):

Okay, excellent. I will, um, make sure to include a link to those in our show notes so that if people want to adopt that amazing tip, we will, uh, definitely have that for them. So let's talk about the importance of play as an early educator, early childhood development person, childhood educator, we cannot say it again and again, that play is the work of childhood. Yeah. And so many times when I see my kids completely absorbed in digital modes of play, I have the fear that they're going to be missing out on the importance of dramatic play or imaginative play acting. What are your thoughts on this sort of like, digital versus I'm gonna call it analog play.

Allana Robinson (21:45):

Well, they both have their place. Right. I find that children, like you were saying in your introduction, really use that kind of information that they get from their digital play and they pull it into their analog play as long as they have the time and the space available to them. And so creating those, um, provocations to bring that in, and oftentimes like, you'll see it by, you know, if they're really into Spiderman and they've been watching a lot of Spiderman cartoons getting them a Spiderman costume so that they can be Spiderman.

Hillary Wilkinson (22:19):

Oh sure. Or hanging a rope on a tree and…

Allana Robinson (22:22):

Exactly kind of creating those provocations to pull what they're doing in their digital life, into the real world. And again, creating that time and space in your schedule, in your routine so that they have the chance to figure that out. I find a lot of parents, they're very impatient because children get into digital play very quickly, they expect them to do the same with their analog play. But the research shows that on average it takes children an hour to really get into play. And that's a long time, a lot of parents just give their child an hour and when their child hasn't settled into a game in that time, they're like, “Well, guess it's not gonna happen.” And they give up.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:05):

I so relate to that from thinking about play dates that have been scheduled on my very adult schedule, you know, but we'd set a play date. And honestly it would be like, you just feel like it was like the kids had done like a lot of parallel play or a lot of just kind of like feeling stuff out that last 10 minutes they'd seem to like completely click and we’re like, oh, and we have to go. And so, you know, so shame on me for not scheduling maybe two hours at the park instead.

Allana Robinson (23:41):

Exactly. And I mean, kids do it digitally too. Parents just don't realize it because their children are splitting between a bunch of different apps, but it's not as visual or as visible as them flitting between a whole bunch of different toys. And so making sure that you give your children nice chunk of time to get into their analog play and really settle into their analog play and create some like “yes space” around that. Cause when you think about children on tablets, typically where either have them locked in using guided access or they're using something like an Amazon tablet that has, like, a safe children's mode to it. And so they have that kind of like a digital fence that they're allowed to explore within. But in analog play, we tend to have children in environments where they can break things. They don't have free run of the environment.

Allana Robinson (24:37):

They aren't allowed to just run around and explore and figure it out on their own. We're constantly saying, “be careful, don't do that. Oh, don't touch. It's not a toy.” And so when we are thinking about setting up our analog fence to give them that space, to really explore, making sure that our environment, that we're placing them in has that safety built into it, that it's set up for their success so that we're not constantly having to stick our nose in and break their playstate. We're able to, to just let them figure it out.

Hillary Wilkinson (25:08):

Yeah. Yeah. No. And I love that and kind of bringing that around so that maybe adults understand that play state that you're talking about is think about how irritating it is when you are in a work state of maybe you are creating a spreadsheet doing something online or, you're in that, you know, quasi-creative state of your own work. If you have someone who keeps coming in and you know, “mom, mom, mom”, that's why we lose our temper! 

Allana Robinson (25:41):

You think about the pandemic, that's what moms were complaining about. Right? Like we had, it's not necessarily that we didn't have the time to work it's that we didn't have the uninterrupted time to work and where we were, you know, trying to get things done and every five seconds somebody's coming in and asking for a goldfish cracker. And so it's the same thing with kids. If we're constantly sticking our nose in and giving them directions, when they're trying to get into a game, they're never gonna be able, able to get into that game because then they become preoccupied with what we are telling them to do.

Hillary Wilkinson (26:11):

Right. Right. And when we talk about game, just to be clear, we're talking about an imaginative, an offline type game we're talking about.

Allana Robinson (26:20):

Yeah, exactly. Uh, dramatic play playing in the kitchen, playing in the, with their toys kind of game.

Hillary Wilkinson (26:28):

Knowing that you're the queen of developmental appropriateness, what would be your number one developmental tool that you recommend?

Allana Robinson (27:17):

Outdoor unsupervised play.

Hillary Wilkinson (27:19):

Oh, I love it. Especially in this theme of outdoor living and experiencing nature, please expand.

Allana Robinson (27:27):

Uh, so outside is a perfectly balanced sensory environment. I remember how I was saying, like, our children need that sensory input because part of the quote, unquote problem with screens is that it keeps our children very still and indoors where there isn't a whole lot of sensory stimulation, which our nervous system needs in order to develop appropriately. So outside is this perfectly balanced sensory environment. There isn't too much or too little input. It's very, very open ended, right? You've got sticks and rocks and grass, and there's no, like, right or wrong way to play outside. So it gives children a lot of freedom. It gives them a perfect environment to regulate in. And it provides because usually we have some nice wide open spaces, lots of opportunities to use our big muscles, to take deep, very cleansing breaths and really engage our vagal tone. And all of these things are extremely important to developing a well-balanced and resilient nervous system.

Hillary Wilkinson (28:38):

Wonderful. So we have to take a short break. But when we come back, I'm going to ask Allana Robinson for her healthy screen habit.

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Hillary Wilkinson:

My guest today is Allana Robinson, early childhood educator, and developmental specialist who advocates for balance around digital wellness. Now Allana, on every episode of the healthy screen habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit, which is a tip or takeaway our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one you can share with us today?

Allana Robinson (29:51):

I think my top one would be to really use those visual timers and really make that time that your child has on screen concrete. Um, whether you use a physical timer, like a time timer or time timer actually has an app that you can on most tablets, Android and iOS. I'm not sure about Amazon, um, that you can actually like, minimize into the corner of the screen. So the timer's right there for your child to see.  Again, it makes that screen time concrete. It frees you up from having to monitor your child. So they don't feel like you're hovering over their shoulder, just waiting to rip it outta their hands. And it gives them some independence around it, right? Like in our house, the rule is, if you're not responsible enough to put it down, you're not responsible enough to pick it up. So my children know that when they hear the timer go off, that that means they need to put it down or else they're not going to have the opportunity to pick it back up at another time. Right. And that expectation where they can see the time that's allotted to them, they can see that time passing completely eliminated any kind of resistance or, um, fight back over screen time limits.

Hillary Wilkinson (31:10):

Love it. Firm, fair, loving boundaries. That's you know, we all, exactly. We all have to use them. So it's a great place to try that.

Allana Robinson (31:18):

Oh, they make our children feel safe. Right? When we look at children in those big behaviors, it's almost always because there's an inconsistent boundary. And so the more consistent we can be with those boundaries, the safer our children feel and the less pushback you're gonna experience.

Hillary Wilkinson (31:37):

Right. So if our listeners would like to listen to more of Allana's wisdom, which I'm sure you're going to want to, you can find it @themudroompodcast or take a look at the uncommonsense parenting website allanarobinson.com, it's Allana with two LS and one N and as always, I will link all of that information. If you can't remember the spelling, I will link all of the information in the show notes and, and truly Allana. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. 

Allana Robinson (32:10):

So much for having me

Hillary Wilkinson (32:12):

Allana mentioned she's actually the opposite of, you know, enjoying springtime weather. She's in the middle of an ice storm. 

Allana Robinson (32:22):

We sure are!

Hillary Wilkinson (32:25):

Oh my gosh! Oh, hang in there. Thank you again for meeting with me today.

Allana Robinson (32:30):

Thank you so much for having me.