S5 Episode 2: When Social Media Challenges Kill // Joann Bogard

“[Mason’s] accident was purely an accident, he had no intentions of harming himself or dying…I have to let everyone know that these [social media challenges] are out there.”

- Joann Bogard

Healthy Screen Habits Takeaway

Resources

For More Info:

https://www.facebook.com/masonsmessage/

#MasonsMessage

Articles Mentioned:

Blumenthal & Blackburn Introduce Comprehensive Kids' Online Safety Legislation | Blumenthal U.S. Senator for Connecticut

Bills to boost kids’ online safety advance in Senate with bipartisan support | The Hill

Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson (00:06):

Today's topic is critical and potentially life-saving. that being said, I want you all to be aware that today's episode talks about deadly and dangerous social media challenges, as well as accidental death and death by suicide. If you have smaller ears around you, it may be an episode you wanna save until later, or perhaps listen with earbuds.

So the beginning of the school year in many towns seems to bring with it an upswing in social media challenges. Last year, a challenge called Devious Licks had school officials everywhere, begging parents to talk to kids, to put an end to it. The challenge was to steal school property and post it on social media. It was funny for some, a nuisance for others, and expensive for all as new soap dispensers, signs, and items all had to be replaced.

Hillary Wilkinson (01:07):

So it's important. We open these conversations with our kids about social media challenges because often the full impact of these challenges is not understood. My guest today is Joanne Bogard, a mom who has become a powerful force of awareness building and education on online challenges. Sadly, horrifically - this was not by choice. Joanne's life immeasurably changed when her 15 year old son Mason died accidentally through participation in a social media challenge known as the Choking Challenge. We're gonna hear all about it later. Joanne, thank you so much for being here today. I really wanna honor, and I wanna amplify Mason's story and help you with your passion to educate parents about deadly social media challenges. And I think because of this topic, I just wanna do a quick check in with you and ask, how are you today?

Joann Bogard (02:04):

Today's a good day. Yeah. You know, there are, there are days and then there are other days and today's a good day.

Hillary Wilkinson (02:12):

I'm glad, I'm glad for every good day for each good day there is <laugh>. So I think one of the hardest things with teens and these challenges is developmentally -they hit them in all the right spots. They're wired to be pulling away from us as parents and trying new things. They wanna do risk taking and kind of garner attention from their peers, peer pressures at this whole new level of importance, as well as they're trying on new personas yet they don't have a fully developed brain that can understand completely the finality of their actions. It's also this time that they're wonderfully creative and passionate and take on new things with confidence and all of these things kind of create this perfect storm for our kids to try these social media challenges. And I, I know I I've listened to your story about Mason and I look at your family, I look at your story and I think "that's me" that, that, I mean, there is nothing about your story I don't identify with - that being said, I really would like to hear about Mason. What kind of guy was your boy?

Joann Bogard (03:47):

Mason was, um, he was our outdoor adventurous, um, funny. Yeah, he was just full of life. So full of life. Um, typical 15 year old boy. Um, he wasn't really into the social media as much. He would rather be fishing or hiking, but, um, he did watch a lot of YouTube videos that was his go-to platform. And it was typically on how do you, how to make a better fishing lure? How to you know - forge things? How to do all of the creative side of Mason. So, um, typically when we'd go and find him, he was at his work bench, had his phone set up, watching a YouTube video, trying to tie a new knot or do something new. So that was typically Mason. um, I, I love social media. I mean, I, it is a big part of everyone's life.

Joann Bogard (04:54):

It it's the way of the world now. Right? Um, so I do love social media. Um, it allows me to communicate, it allows me to run a side business. It allows me to do a lot of things that I like to do. Um, but with that being said, social media platforms. They don't have those guardrails up. It's not for everyone. It's not for children. It's not set up. It could be, and it should be, but it's not set up for children. So I think, well, I know that is something that we really, not only as a community, but as a world. I mean, we really need to reign this in and start putting some guardrails up for our kids. They deserve that.

Hillary Wilkinson (05:44):

I agree. I agree completely. And I like that you, um, kind of bring up that there's a very good side to social media as well. These challenges, I mean, social media challenges got their start in a positive light. The first one I can remember really going through was, um, many of us remember the ice bucket challenge back in 2014 and it, they raised over a hundred, million dollars for ALS research by people, dumping ice buckets over their head, and then challenging the next person. And, and so were you guys aware of, I mean, I think it's, I think it's kind of a moot point to say. Were you aware of social media challenges? If you're engaged in social media, you're aware of the challenges, but were you aware…

Joann Bogard (06:36):

Not everyone is though mm-hmm <affirmative> I mean, not I'm, I am still shocked when I mention them and they're like, “What's a challenge?” You know, there are still people out there who, if that's not a part of your world, if that's not what you're looking at, if you don't have teenagers or if you're not reading those particular news articles that are coming to your feed, I, you know, that everyone is not aware, which is why I do what I do. It's why I tell our story. So hopefully we can spread awareness and make people understand that these are out there and that we do need changes put in place. So I, I had heard of challenges as far as, um, I think I had heard of the ice bucket challenge, of course. And, um, as far as a dangerous one, I had heard of the Tide Pod challenge.

Joann Bogard (07:24):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, that was one that I had heard of. Um, and ironically, um, two weeks before Mason's accident, he came to me and I was the mom who had everything in place. I mean, I did everything a parent could do. I had watchdog apps on their phones. I, um, sat down with them on Sundays and looked at their phones and said, "Hey, what, what's going on? Let's see what you're texting your friends." You know, and just trying to guide them to, um, that safe online world. And when I saw something, you know, maybe something they said to a friend reminding them body language isn't present, you gotta, you know, make sure you soften those edges, you know, when you're speaking to people online. So just those little things. Um, but you know, I had all of that in place.

Joann Bogard (08:18):

We had candid conversations. So two weeks before Mason's accident, um, he came to me with his phone and he said, "Hey, mom, check out this funny video." And I watched it and it was, it was a challenge, but I don't remember honestly which one it was. Um, but it was a challenge. And so after seeing it, I said, and I don't think it was a really dangerous one, but we, that opened the conversation for challenges. So I said, "Buddy you, you realize that some of these challenges can be dangerous. So you need to be careful. You need to watch what you're, you know, allowing your brain to take in. You need to kind of think forward, think about it. Is this safe? Is this something that's, you know, gonna hurt someone or me, or, you know, make sure that what you're watching is okay, and that you're proud of what you're watching." And he said, "I know mom, I would never do anything that would hurt me." And I believed him because he was smart. Mason was very smart. He was witty. He was kind, he just, you know, he, I believed him. He was my son and I never doubted that he would, but he was only 15. And as you mentioned, that frontal lobe of the brain just isn't developed yet. Right. They believe what they see, it's more impulsive.

Hillary Wilkinson (09:44):

And I think it's important to realize the specific concern with these, um, online challenges is that with they get viewed and the whole concept of long lasting consequences is not really there because the failed challenges never get posted. Right. We only see the ones that come out OK.

Joann Bogard (10:09):

Right. So, and that is something that I try to remind the kids when I talk to them, um, is, you know, Mason got a false sense of safety. Um, he never even had to search for a challenge. He just didn't have to because the algorithms just feed those things. It's designed to feed constant videos to them and keep them scrolling. Um, and right now we're in the middle of the world becoming more aware of algorithms and things like that. And I, and Mason's accident was May 1st, 2019. And I didn't really understand algorithms, you know, I have a much better understanding now, but I didn't then.

Hillary Wilkinson (11:12):

I think the best way to continue Mason's story and learn from Joanne's message is to hear how it all went down. And we're gonna do this after this break.

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Hillary Wilkinson (11:42):

My guest is Joanne Bogard. Who's mission is to educate, spread awareness and hold big tech accountable for harms as well as urge change in legislation to protect children, Joann you’re meeting two of these goals today by simply being here and telling your story. So if you're comfortable, could you take us through the day and the following, the following day's events surrounding Mason?

Joann Bogard (12:43):

Yeah. So May 1st, 2019 was a normal day for us. We went to work and Mason went to school. Um, he came home. He, um, you know, we had dinner and it was about 9:30 and he said, "Oh, I forgot to take my shower!" And I said, "Go ahead, Bud, run upstairs, get your shower. It's okay." And, uh, he gave his dad a hug and as he is walking upstairs, he said, "I love you, mom." I said, "I love you too, Bud." And we heard the shower running, and then we heard an unusual noise upstairs. Something had fallen. And, um, my husband went up to check on him and he found Mason unconscious with a belt around his neck, in the bathroom. And so obviously we called 9 1 1, um, my husband's a fireman and he started CPR right away and he got a pulse back, but Mason never regained consciousness.

Joann Bogard (13:47):

He never woke up. So we got him to the hospital. They put him on life support immediately. Um, it was confusing. It, we were trying to figure out because our first, I think normal, natural assumption was suicide. That just didn't make sense. He wasn't upset. He was, you know, it was a normal day. Nothing happened. We hadn't had any previous signs of anything, depression or so as Mason's laying there on life support. And we're trying to figure this out. I got my phone out and I searched for "teen with belt around neck". And the number of online challenges that popped up for The Choking Challenge was staggering. And I knew right away that that's what he had done because just those two weeks before we had talked about challenges. And I thought, I know this is what happened. I just know it. And, um -well Mason never woke up.

Joann Bogard (15:05):

He, um, after three days on life support, they, um, determined that he was clinically brain dead. Um, and Mason is such a giving, generous person, completely generous. Um, so we decided to donate his organs. So we waited another three days while they prepared his body and gathered the recipients. And then, um, he donated his organs and he was able to save five lives by doing that, which is bittersweet. And then - Mason, um, we buried him and we got home and I got his phone out and I looked through it and sure enough, just three days prior to his accident, he had recorded a video on his phone. He did not record a video on the day of his accident. He didn't have his phone in the bathroom with him. He did not. Um, but three days prior, he was in his bedroom alone recording a video.

Joann Bogard (16:20):

And he said, "Okay, let's try this". And it didn't work. He didn't pass out. Um, and he just nonchalantly said called to his dog. And he said, "Well, that didn't work. Come on, Scooby let's go eat dinner." So there was no doubt in our mind that he had no idea that what he was doing was dangerous, that what he had been fed, led him to believe that he was going to get likes and laughs he was gonna make himself get dizzy and then he would post it probably or show friends and get likes and laughs and I mean, you know, you make yourself get dizzy and pass out. That sounds like something a teenage boy would do. Um, but with Mason's situation, the belt that he used locked in place. So when he passed out the belt, didn't loosen and that's why he never woke up.

Joann Bogard (17:16):

So in all of that, the police used his phone to determine, um, you know, all of the things that they need to do. And then the coroner looked at the video and he too said he had no doubt that what Mason was doing was trying the choking challenge and he ruled Mason's, um, death accidental. Uh, so in that it took me about a year to stand up and find some strength. But I actually found my strength when, the donor network in our state, they did an honor walk, which is, um, people line the hallway to respect a person who's donating organs. And so when they did that, they posted it and it went mega viral. I think after like six months it had like 40 million views or something. Um, I'm not really good at knowing all the techy stuff that was supposed to be a lot someone said.

Hillary Wilkinson (18:27):

For people, for listeners who don't know what an honor walk is, I would like to explain it. So an Honor Walk takes place when a donor patient who is on life support is transferred from the nursing unit to the operating room or a waiting ambulance. It is a quiet and profound way to give a hero's goodbye.

Joann Bogard (18:50):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> and he was definitely our hero. So, and um, so anyway, when, um, um, so when I found my strength, what the, where I found my strength was I was getting messages on Facebook messenger from around the world. People saying, "Thank you for sharing Mason's video. We had never heard of the choking challenge. We promise that we are going to talk to our children, our grandchildren, our, um, youth groups, whatever it was, we're gonna talk to them about it." Um, they offered condolences and after about <laugh> maybe a couple hundred of those messages, some of them I had to hit translate because they were from islands and countries. I'd never heard of. Um, and I tried to answer, at least everyone with at least a thank you or an acknowledgment. Um, but that led me to believe that I had to do more. I just, I couldn't just let Mason's death be in vain.

Joann Bogard (19:58):

His accident was purely an accident. He had no intentions of harming himself or dying. And I had to let everyone know that these things are out there. Yes. These challenges - now dares have been around for decades, you know, we've dared for decades, but it's just different now because with the online world, um, instead of it just being their tribe of 10 or 20 peers, this is hundreds and thousands of people urging them to try these dares. And it's not just one that they might hear about in their tribe, their friends at school- it's out there. And it's just all, there's so many out there right now and, and they're dangerous. They're so dangerous.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:45):

You talk about these kind of collective groups and, um, within that, I'm kind of wondering, do you think that like, obviously there's people egging them on, but what sort of role do you think that maybe persuasive design in technology with like the auto play and the, the algorithms that we now know exist? Like, do you think they had a role in this event?

Joann Bogard (21:19):

I absolutely believe that. And I, I could not cannot encourage parents enough to do those things that they need to do. Um, turn off that auto play, put time limits. You know, there are so many things that we need to do as parents, but as parents, we can only do so much.

Hillary Wilkinson (21:40):

Oh yes.

Joann Bogard (21:41):

You know, I did everything that I knew how to do that I was knowledgeable about, but there's so much out there and the platforms they are designed to keep people engaged and that includes children. Yes. You know, as long and as much as they can, it includes them. So, you know, don't have to search for "monkeys wearing t-shirts", you know, by whatever video or search they've done or their friends have done, or a mutual friend online has done that algorithm is going to say, Hm, I wonder if Mason would like this video - I'll send it to him. And so those things are actually fed unwittingly to the user's knowledge. They're fed to all of us. And you know, sometimes, sometimes I like that. I like autocorrect. I like the, when my phone knows the word I'm trying to type, and I don't have to type out the big, long word.

Joann Bogard (22:47):

So some of those things have a place, they do! But, um, other things like this, they just have no place in a child's hand. You know, I have the entire world in the palm of my hand with my phone and it's genius. It is brilliant for someone to think of that. And I love that, but I don't love it for everything. Every aspect of it is not safe and it's not healthy. So it just needs a reboot. It needs to be reset. You know, the internet just needs this big reboot that says let's fix it and let's fix it right. Let's make it safe and put guardrails up and let's do it right.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:27):

What, um, are you aware of any legislation or guardrails that we could be keeping our eyes out for?

Joann Bogard (23:34):

Absolutely. KOSA um, is a bill, it's a bipartisan bill that's senators Blackburn and Bluementhal, introduced that. And that is one that I really, I, I mean, if we could get that passed, that is such a groundbreaking law that would help so much with some of the problems that are out there.

Hillary Wilkinson (24:00):

I'm not familiar enough with KOSA to be able to describe it succinctly. Mm-hmm <affirmative> Do you happen to know?

Joann Bogard (24:07):

Yeah, let me read. So the KOSA bill would impose new safeguards tools and transparency requirements for minors online. That's basically what it's gonna do. It's gonna keep them safe online. It's gonna put those guard rails up. Um, so let's see, I'm gonna read this because I like to get it just right. So, um, the bill applies to entities that are commercial software application or electronic service that connects to the internet that is used. So your phone, your computer, your tablet, any of those things that you use that use the internet. Um, one thing I always encourage parents to remember is, you know, a lot of our kids have gaming systems mm-hmm <affirmative> and we forget that YouTube and all of those platforms are also on gaming systems. So when you put those safety features on, don't forget, they have accounts on their system too. So you kind of need to keep an eye on that too.

Hillary Wilkinson (25:11):

That's very good tip,

Joann Bogard (25:12):

You know, we've had COPPA, which is the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act that has been around since, before we had computers in our homes. So it's outdated and KOSA is that bill that updates that in considering children when it comes to online safety.

Hillary Wilkinson (25:37):

Great. Thank you for all of the information on that. So we have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Joanne Bogard for her healthy screen habit.

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Hillary Wilkinson (26:28): 

My guest today is Joanne Bogard a mom of three, two adult children, and one, Mason, who is forever 15. She recognizes. And I'm very glad you do that. She did everything right. And social media still caused Mason's death. Joanne, this has been a really, extremely powerful story. I'm so grateful you are sharing Mason's message, which I know you have a hashtag Mason's message that people can look up. If they want further stories and insights. Now, on every episode, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit, which is a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have a healthy screen habit you could share with us? I feel like you've already given us a lot, but <laugh>,

Joann Bogard (27:29):

Um, you know, just the, the big thing is just being present in their online world. That would be the big thing. So when you decide that your child's ready to be on social media, be sure to be on the platforms as well. So if they're on TikTok, get on TikTok, you kind of see what they're watching. What's out there. What's going on in the world?  Talk with them about appropriate inappropriate topics. That way you can grow their awareness of good versus bad, um, be engaged, be present, put those watchdog apps in place. They're gonna scream about it. They're gonna say “that's my privacy. You're invading.... “  You're mom and dad, you're caregivers, you're their guardian. It's your job. You know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> when they're two, we don't let, 'em go to the bathroom by themselves at the movie theater. We're not gonna let 'em online, you know, without some kind of guardian. So turn on all those safety features. It's hard to know how to do that because every platform is different, but just do a search online and find out how to turn those on. So bottom line be actively present in their online world. Yeah. Know what they're watching as much as you possibly can. And again, parents can't do this alone. We have to have the platforms, um, get on board with this. It's just a must.

Hillary Wilkinson (28:49):

Right? I agree. And I, um, I, I also agree that it's just, it's critically important that we maintain the lines of communication and be able to also connect the dots for kids on the fact that the social media challenges they see online are only the successful ones. I, I kind of keep bringing that up because I can tell from my kids, that was an absolute light bulb moment for them. When I pointed that out, I said, “You know, the only people who you are seeing are the ones who COULD post. “  And it was kind of this aha moment. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So if our listeners would like to learn more about your work or Mason's Message, where can they find you?

Joann Bogard (29:33):

Um, I actually have, again, I love social media. It allows me to do a lot of things. Um, I have a, a Facebook page called Mason's Message. Um, that is certainly probably the easiest way to find me out there. I try to post things that are helpful to parents and to youth. Um, and just try to put that awareness out there so that they can see that. And I encourage everyone to share it, to talk about it with their kids, you know, not just challenges, but anything dangerous online.

Hillary Wilkinson (30:07):

Yeah. Okay. A transcript of this episode, plus all links mentioned will be posted in this episode's show notes, which you can find on our website, click the podcast tool and scroll down to find this episode. Joanne, thank you so much for sharing. I have no doubt you saved lives today, just even in this conversation. Thank you.

Joann Bogard (30:31):

Well, thank you for letting me tell his story. So thank you.