S5 Episode 9: Getting Your Teen Social-Media-Ready // Jeannie Ondelacy Sprague of Healthy Screen Habits

“Before humor, think kindness [when posting anything online].”

- Jeannie Ondelacy Sprague

Healthy Screen Habits Takeaway

Resources

For More Info:

HealthyScreenHabits.org

Resources Referenced:

Wait Until 8th

https://www.waituntil8th.org/

Article: “I Used to be a Human Being” by Andrew Sullivan | New York Magazine

Show Transcript

Hillary Wilkinson (00:51):

Each of us at Healthy Screen Habits has our own story to tell as far as like what brought us to this point. And today you get to hear our Chief Operating Officer, Jeanie Sprague’s path to Healthy Screen Habits. As one of the founding members of Healthy Screen Habits, Jeanie serves many roles, and she always has this steadfast, cheerfulness and calm, yet can-do attitude that honestly keeps the rest of us balanced and going with a degree in educational psychology. Jeannie has over 25 years of experience with working with children. Her goal is to help people find balance in how they use their media, especially as it relates to family interactions. I know she keeps me balanced al

l the time, <laugh>, and I can't wait to share her with you. Welcome to the podcast, Jeannie Sprague.

Jeannie Sprague (01:54):

Thank you, friend. It's so fun to be here with you.

Hillary Wilkinson (01:57):

Yay. It's fun to have you on the other side of the mic for a change. <laugh>. So, Jeannie, when we started Healthy Screen Habits, we all shared this like passion for educating and empowering families, but each one of us got to this spot from a different path. And I'm just wondering, could you share yours? What path brought you to healthy Screen Habits?

Jeannie Sprague (02:25):

Of course. So I have to take it back to even my undergrad days in one of my psychology classes and learning, um, about how much media affects, uh, child development. And, you know, this was a long time ago, but you know, we were talking about how, um, much brains are impacted by the fast technology that we have now at our disposal. And I remember thinking then, huh, I wanna make sure that my kids have, uh, a good balance in their lives with, um, you know, know what they're, what they're consuming and what they're, um, seeing. And back then I could have never known that we'd be having this tiny little, uh, portable access to the world at our hands. And, um, thinking about just even television at the time, I thought, Okay, I wanna make sure that we, you know, mediate that. But anyway, fast forward to about 2008 when, uh, I had my friend just out of the blue give me an invitation to Facebook.

Jeannie Sprague (03:30):

And, you know, I thought, I don't even know what this thing is. It's, and I clicked on it and I just opened up an account and I was off. And I posted on Facebook all the time. I, you know, felt like it was a way to connect with other people. Um, fast forward again to 2009 when, um, my daughter, who we were able to adopt came to us. She had congenital heart defects, and we ended up in the hospital for, you know, month and a half, uh, uh, during a open heart surgery and recovery. And, you know, I was in a terrible state of despair and, you know, not knowing what was gonna happen. And I felt like, um, the social media that I was using was a way to connect with people. But, uh, fast forward again to, uh, 2014 when she had, uh, open heart surgery again and subsequent needing of a heart transplant.

Jeannie Sprague (04:36):

Uh, as you can imagine, I was, um, I don't even have the words <laugh> depressed. Yeah. Uh, to say the least. But, you know, it was just being in the hospital for weeks on end, uh, left me feeling really lonely. And again, I'm turning to social media to connect with people, but at the this point in my life, you know, being through a lot of trauma, I, uh, realized that I was not really in a great emotional state. And so I'm, I'm looking at my, my feed on like Instagram and, uh, Facebook, and I'm scrolling and scrolling. I had this moment where I was like scrolling and scrolling and feeling like I needed to keep scrolling <laugh> to try to connect with people. I was so lonely. I was in such a hard place emotionally. And I just remember thinking, What am I doing? Why am I on this?

Jeannie Sprague (05:35):

I'm not feeling connected to anybody. I'm not feeling like I'm getting the support that I really need. It was something that I knew was kind of broken for me, and I just felt at that time, I remember reading an article, [where he’d] gone through a digital detox mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he, you know, he for a month left his phone behind, um, and went off into nature. Um, he said everything that I was feeling at the time about my experience with social media and with technology and, uh, you know, that his life changed when he just put the phone away. Like, he looked out into the world and instead of thinking, Oh, how can I take this picture of this plant? And then instantly post it on Instagram, he just stopped and looked at it and took it in. And, and for him, that was really living and that was really connecting. And I thought, yes, that is what's missing for me right now in my constant need to, to check in with social media all the time.

Hillary Wilkinson (06:37):

I think it's so powerful to, um, recognize that what you were craving was connection, which is what social many of the social media platforms market is. "Oh. The ability to connect with others." But you, and it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that you, because I feel like you're very in tune with your, your inner, your inner soul, your inner workings <laugh>. Um, you were recognizing that what you were doing was the equivalent of of being starving and eating a bag of potato chips. You were absolutely. You, uh, when what you needed was, uh, you know, sit down dinner. Right. And, and, um, so I think that's so powerful so that, um, we don't leave people hanging. Can you give a little bit of an update on your daughter's health today?

Jeannie Sprague (07:36):

Oh, thanks for asking. Yeah. She's actually doing really well. We had a lot of complications after, um, the transplant, but now today she's thriving and just <laugh> such a funny kid. And I, I'm so grateful that, um, she, she's just a walking miracle and I am so grateful that I get to witness that.

Hillary Wilkinson (08:01):

Aww. And I, I love when Jeannie and I will often have meetings via Zoom or Google meets and, uh, she'll pop in and actually is continually asking about baking things. So it sounds like your house always has great stuff coming outta the kitchen, which I'm a little bit jealous about, but it's probably OK that I don't have that That's your

Jeannie Sprague (08:20):

Talent. Yes, <laugh> for

Hillary Wilkinson (08:23):

Sure. Ok. Okay. As you know, Jeannie, like we, we have talked this season, I'm focusing on social media. So that was why I kind of found it interesting that like your journey to healthy screen habits actually kind of had its origin a little bit in that whole like, roller coaster ride of your path with social media. So I, um, I would like to continue the story of your journey with social media, but first we need to take a short break.

Hillary Wilkinson (09:37):

I'm speaking with Jeannie Sprague, one of the founders of Healthy Screen Habits. Just before the break, you shared with us a little bit about this journey that you have had with social media and how it kind of brought you to healthy screen habits. It sounds like it was kind of a very, um, bumpy area at that point in your relationship with social media. So can you share how you got to where you are today? I guess I should first ask like, where are you at with it today and what was your process in getting there?

Jeannie Sprague (10:45):

Right. Um, I'm at a better place today, and I think what I realized was how much it became a part of how we interact as a people, Um, which means that we need to be more conscious of how we use it. Right. So,

Hillary Wilkinson (11:01):

Right. I think that whole thing of it being free too was like a huge thing. Like, I wouldn't have signed up for a subscription service of something because I'm cheap, but <laugh> that it was, that it was seemingly free was like, Oh, sure, I'll try this out. You know? Right. And you know, without knowing that whole phrase that we all know now of the, "if you're not paying for the product, you are the product." I, I didn't, I didn't have that wisdom.

Jeannie Sprague (11:32):

Well, we couldn't have known. Right. And I think that's part of the problem is that there have been no ways to really train up the generations to use these products. And, you know, really it's supposed to be a tool. Our phones are supposed to be a tool. Um, these platforms are supposed to be tools for us to interact together, but it, you know, the tool is supposed to be something that you pick up and you use when you want to for your own benefit, but instead, they've all become things that are using us. Right. Like, I love that Cal Newport article with that image of the smartphone, you know, coming out in 2007 and the guys holding the smartphone and smiling. And then 2013, I think, uh, the smartphone is holding the guy mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Right. Because it's, it's become something that is, um, sometimes out of our control because of Right. That, that constant need to check. Like when I was having that constant need to check, because like you said, I was craving some interaction and some emotional support and things that really, those platforms are not, they're not made for that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Hillary Wilkinson (12:49):

So you said that you're in a better place with social media now. How did you get to that place? Was it just you found need for it to use your word as a tool? Or is it, I mean, was it forced back on you or, Cause I think, I think for a while you were off social media completely, right?

Jeannie Sprague (13:09):

Pretty much. I never canceled any of my accounts, but I really decided to stop using it. I just, because I felt bad every time I would pick it up, I'd feel this waste of time. Like, what did I just spend my time doing? And, you know, everybody uses it for different reasons, but I, I struggle with the, it's all about me mentality and I struggle with, you know, showcasing things that might make other people feel bad. So, you know, when I realized that it was, for me, this particular thing we call social media is very superficial. Then I decided, well, if I am going to use it to connect with people, to update people, then I'm going to use it on my own terms. And if you ask anybody that knows me well, or especially my children who I try to indoctrinate with this idea, I am my own person and I don't like doing what everybody else is doing, that bugs me to know what <laugh> to be a follower is very hard.

Jeannie Sprague (14:12):

And to literally be called a follower on social media is something that just irks me to no end. So it, everything I do on social media is intentional and I feel like I can be on there and I can be a voice of positivity because there's so much negativity out there. And, um, recently I felt like if I'm going to be on, then I can post something that is going to uplift somebody or is going to give some thought for good and also is going to be real. That's such an important part of human-to-human interaction, is just being real and being vulnerable with each other. And so I feel like I can go on and I can post, maybe not like, Oh, I'm not gonna air all the dirty secrets, but I, I want to let people know. Yes, sometimes parenting sucks. Sometimes it's hard and sometimes it doesn't go the way you want it to go. And I feel like being real, like that is a really important part of helping others and, you know, making sure people know that we're all in this together, you know, we shouldn't be against each other.

Hillary Wilkinson (15:23):

Right. Okay. So we started Healthy Screen Habits. I think, um, all of us had this shared concern for our kids. We're all moms and we all, I think our primary focus was I, this tech stuff is getting out in front of us, We don't know. And so we started reading and doing the research, and then we kind of, you know, became this go-to resource for local friends. And then we decided to get organized. So we have 14 kids between the four founding members. And at this point we are all moms of teens, which is very, it, it's a different chapter than where we started maybe. And we have a very real-world view of what social media can do to teens, but yet we also recognize that just like teaching them to drive automobiles, we want a kind of a long runway on this path to them getting their own accounts.

Hillary Wilkinson (16:28):

We wanna give them enough time to, you know, have their own growing pains mm-hmm. <affirmative> while we're right there. And if we set this hard company line of you can have social media when you're 18, we don't really, I, at my house, I didn't really feel like that was, that didn't give me enough time to help them learn how to navigate social media and use it responsibly. I mean, chances are many teens are turning 18 and in fairly short order go right off to school. Right. At least that's how it works out at my house. So, um, so let's talk about how to get teens ready for their own accounts. Have you, did, did you guys take any special steps in your house?

Jeannie Sprague (17:15):

We did. Well, first of all, we are trying to do that practice kind of the long, the long haul practice with phones in general. Right. I love the Wait Until 8th campaign where, you know, you hold off on giving your kid a smartphone until at least eighth grade. And so we did that. And before that we had, we did with my oldest, we gave him a, a, a dumb phone, if you will, you know, a, um, flip phone. And, you know, he even told me that that was even distracting. So it's like, like, oh my goodness. You know, imagine what a smartphone would do. We only have two kids now with phones. And my daughter, um, who's 14 still has, uh, it's a smartphone, but we, we dumbed it down. She, she doesn't use it like a smartphone. Um, so she doesn't have any social media phones.

Jeannie Sprague (18:08):

So my oldest is the only one that has, um, gone through this training, so to speak. Um, and he did not get any, uh, social media until he was 16. Um, you know, which was interesting because he was 16 during, uh, Covid shutdown. And, and you know, a lot of people, I heard a lot of people say to me, Oh, I, well I'm gonna go ahead and give it to them because, you know, this is their only way to interact. And because, you know, they're not at school and everything's social distanced. And I mean, every parent has to decide what the, the cost benefit analysis. So before he ever asked about social media, we needed to make sure that he understood about all of the things. Because once social media is available, you are looking at exposure to hate speech, cyber building, pornography, the works.

Jeannie Sprague (19:11):

If you're not ready to talk with your child about these things, then neither one of you is ready for your child to have social media. Right. So we as a family, we talk openly about these things. Um, we, we laid out, okay, what does so cyber bullying look like? What is, what is pornography? What does that look like? And what do you do about it? Um, because they're going to see it. It is absolutely 100% inevitable. You cannot avoid it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so it's not like I've heard you say over and over again, it's not the if it's the when. Right. And so do, do we have plans in place for what to do when you see that and, and are you willing and open to talking about it with your child? So, you know, we went through that with our oldest and also talked about some of the things that I had been feeling like I mentioned, You know, am I, am I showing off things? Am I just posting the highlight reels? And is it just making people feel bad if, if they see a post of mine? You know, like, what is, what is my purpose in posting right now? What is, what is it that I'm trying to accomplish?

Hillary Wilkinson (20:26):

What's your, what's your why behind, Behind showing it.

Jeannie Sprague (20:30):

Exactly. And making sure that we talked about that so that when he went to post that, you know, he stopped and thought about it before he actually put anything on. So, I mean, that's the outside stuff. But then you've got the whole direct messaging DM thing, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and <affirmative>, and that's how kids communicate these days. And I remember him coming to me, I, I despise Snapchat and you know, he came to me and said, Mom, I'm working. That's how they do all their scheduling changes is messaging through Snapchat. And I was like, Oh, here we go. Yeah. But that's the reality. You know, like, like you said, eventually they're gonna turn 18 and they're gonna have all these apps at their disposal anyway. You're not gonna stop them, nor should you, because they, they need to be making choices, but this time, whenever you decide to open it up to them, that should be their training time when they are making the mistakes, but then you're helping them along the way.

Jeannie Sprague (21:30):

And I thought, well, you know, I'm not gonna be able to keep this from him, but now if I, he has access to it, I can help monitor and help guide him along and kind of be there in that training seat. Like, just as I, oh, just as I sat with him in the driver's training seat <laugh>. I just think it that that constant conversation, the constant asking of why are you doing this? What's your purpose in it? And what are you trying to accomplish on these platforms is the most important thing we can do.

Hillary Wilkinson (22:03):

Yeah. Yeah. And I can, I can share a little bit about what we have done in our house, cuz every family's different. Everybody, you know, you get to choose your own adventure on this path to parenting mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Hillary Wilkinson (22:16):

And, uh, in my house, uh, what we have done is I let my daughter, I put her in charge of doing the posts from my account. Right. So that a fun weekend or something like that, and I'm like, Hey, could you put together a, a post from my Instagram account? And so she had practice with doing it and, you know, and we talked about them when she would, you know, write up the little caption, we'd talk about wording and we'd talk about, So she kind of had, you know, that's, that's really, um, you know, to go back to the driving analogy, that's like being with the driver and the driving instructor who has their own brake pedal <laugh>.

Jeannie Sprague (23:03):

Right. 

Hillary Wilkinson (23:05):

Know, where it's like, I mean, that's, that's really ultimate control. And then, you know, moving forward from there, after she'd had done that for a while, then moving in to getting her own account and also having lots of conversations around, you know, my poor kids are subject to watching every documentary out there, <laugh> right on, on what, what, you know, this whole realm of digital wellness. And so I think we talk about it a lot. We have all of those conversations and she knows that, uh, I, we retain full right. To, um, that, you know, if, if she has her own account, we, we follow it and....We definitely have the conversation about Finsta's or fake, fake Instagram accounts. And so just by sharing that knowledge of, you know, I know that this is out there, and yes, you may be exposing them to the fact that it's like, Oh, I could do that. Right. But it's, um, you know, I mean, it, it shows that you're not naive to that world also. So I think totally it strengthens your credibility as a parent.

Jeannie Sprague (24:20):

Well, and it also, we cannot know all the things. They're always going to know way more about it. Than we ever could. Right. And, and it's, you know, you can do all these things and they can still create an account on their own, you know, like on a computer or something without having it be an app on the phone. These things happen all the time. Yeah. And I think, I mean, there can be consequences of course, but to keep it, the communication open is so important. You have to keep talking about it and making sure that they understand, you know, why it is what it is about your family and your family values that are shaping what you do on social media. You know, who we want to be and who we want to represent and how we want others to feel when they're around us. Because, you know, it's not just like in person, but on, on social media. How do we want people to feel when they're around us?

Hillary Wilkinson (25:19):

Right. And I think also that, um, that's one other thing that I forgot to touch on when talking about having my own kids have their own, um, social media accounts. One thing that I try to model and I have done for years now is, um, I get consent from any person whose image I am sharing on my account. And I just, I have a quick little blip that, um, is a text and it says, I'm not in the habit of sharing others' images without first asking for their consent. Is this okay if I, if I post this on social media? And so in doing that, it does a couple of things. For one, it pumps the breaks on me because sometimes I'm like, Ugh, I don't really, Yeah. You know, if it's a group picture, I'm like, Ugh, I don't even have all of these people's contact information, so I can't post this.

Hillary Wilkinson (26:16):

You know, so that, it's that, but also it's like, do I wanna go through these multi multiple steps? So it's like sometimes, uh, sometimes yes, sometimes no. But it also models for my kids and their friends because if I've got a great picture of like, say them and, you know, um, excuse me, if I've got a great picture of them, say at a sports event or something like that with their buddies, I, I model, I, I'm modeling that behavior of consent to their friends as well as them. And I think I, I hope that that is a powerful message. Oh,

Jeannie Sprague (27:00):

It sounds so good.

Hillary Wilkinson (27:01):

It sends a message of respect as well, because they can say, Oh, I really hate that picture. And I'm like, No problem. I will not post it. You know, I love that. And so, and typically it's on a group thread or, you know, so people have seen me back down, you know, and say, No problem. You know, I I respect your choice. So,

Jeannie Sprague (27:21):

So important. I love that so much. And I, I do the same thing. I don't, I typically don't post, um, really a lot of things that I'm doing like that. Like, if I go to an event, it's not like I'm posting. Um, that's what I've chosen to not do. You know, if if I'm posting it's because I have a, a thought I want to share, basically. And so, um, but I the same thing. Uh, we talk about consent all the time and how would that person feel to see a picture? Um, you know, how would you feel if that was your picture? Um, those are important questions to ask yourself, uh, before and for your child to ask before even taking the picture, I

Hillary Wilkinson (28:07):

Think. Right, right.

Jeannie Sprague (28:09):

Because they get, they think that's funny. You know, they think that things are funny, but they don't have that prefrontal cortex brain power yet to decide if that really is funny. Right. And I think that's, I think in preparing teens, that's probably the most important thing is to help them understand it's probably not as funny as you think. And before humor, think kindness. I say that all the time to my kids. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> before humor, think kindness because they just, they don't get it sometimes that, that's not as funny as they think it is. <laugh>.

Hillary Wilkinson (28:47):

Okay. So we spent a long time coming up with the name for our organization, and when we finally decided upon it, we realized that we're passionate about not just delivering the awareness or the gloom and doom of what tech's doing potentially to this generation. And we didn't want to, We, we wanted to build awareness, but we didn't want to participate in kind of communal hand ringing. We wanted to give people things to do. So habits to establish that will set p families up for success. And one of the, one of the habits directly correlates to social media. It's called the grandma rule. And can you explain the grandma rule?

Jeannie Sprague (29:32):

I love the grandma rule. It's such an easy one to remember too. So I like to think of it as the way that I think kids can most connect with how to be thoughtful on social media. Because who doesn't love a granny? You know, whether it's their own grandma or just a respected member of the community. There's always a grandma in a kid's life that just means the world to them. And so the grandma rule is this, you wouldn't if, Oh, sorry, I should say that like this. Um, before you post, think about grandma, if you wouldn't want grandma to see it than don't send it. Right. Because wouldn't you be mortified if grandma saw <laugh> a sexting post? I mean, I think that's a really easy way for kids to get it because, And adults too, right? I wouldn't want my grandma if she were alive to see anything like that, I think, Right.

Hillary Wilkinson (30:43):

Or, or anything unkind. I mean, you kind of wanna put your best foot forward. I feel like it builds a good, it teaches an internal filter somehow by putting it outside by, by making it a third party individual. It's like, Oh, would I be okay with grandma seeing this?

Jeannie Sprague (31:03):

Right. Because like I said, I think for teenagers, they think everything is funny. I mean, you should see some of the memes that are out there. And I think if they put it in that perspective with that filter, like you were saying, that actually this would be quite offensive to grandma, then it helps them remember, Oh, well maybe this isn't the best choice.

Hillary Wilkinson (31:27):

Right. Okay. We're gonna take a short break and when we come back, I'm going to ask Jeannie for her Healthy Screen Habit.

Hillary Wilkinson (32:34):

We're back. I'm talking with Jeannie Sprague, my good friend and colleague get Healthy Screen Habits. Jeannie, as you well know, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one?

Jeannie Sprague (32:55):

I do. I use, it's called Bedtime on my Android device. And it, what it does is it takes the time that you set, um, I, I try to do it an hour before bedtime. So every night my phone turns to gray scale, which means that all of my phone is without color. Like there's no single part that has color displayed. And so it is black and white and it is horrid to look at <laugh>. There's just no interest in looking at a phone that is black and white. Um, so I encourage you to try it. I love that it keeps me off. Not that I really want to gravitate to my phone all the time, but you know, sometimes I do. And this is just an easy way for me to say, "Nope, I don't want to look at my phone right now." Um, it also, um, silences all of my notifications until, um, seven in the morning. So I have a nine to seven set up. Um, I know some people have different bed times, but you definitely could just alter it to different times during the day. But try it, try putting your phone to gray scale at the very least, and you'll be surprised how much you'll just keep your phone away from you, <laugh>.

Hillary Wilkinson (34:13):

Thank you. It keeps that use intentional.

Jeannie Sprague (34:16):

Exactly.

Hillary WIlkinson (34:17):

If you'd like to find out more healthy screen habits for your own family, please visit our website at healthyscreenhabits.org. As always, a complete transcript of this episode can be found in today's show notes. You find these by going to that website, healthy screen habits.org. Click on the podcast button and use the dropdown menu to find this episode. Jeanie, I can't thank you enough for coming on here, the podcast and helping us all learn healthy habits around social media.

Jeannie Sprague (34:49):

Thank you, Hillary. You are awesome.