Hillary Wilkinson (00:02):

I've been following the work of my guest today for years. He is an absolute pioneer in the realm of brain development. If you've heard about any of the studies that discuss disorganized white matter in the brains of children who used more than the American Academy of Pediatrics recommendation of screen time, you will have heard about him. He's the guy who brought all of this to light. And today we are going to discuss brain science, toddlers and screens, plus what you can be doing to enrich your child's brain development. I am truly honored to welcome today Dr. John Hutton.

Dr. John Hutton (01:10):

Thank you. Uh, it's a pleasure to be here, Hillary.

Hillary Wilkinson (01:13):

Thank you. So, Dr. Hutton, brain science is a really big topic, and let, I think when we start with really big topics, it's best to start kind of, to quote Sound of Music, start at the very beginning. <laugh>, it's, so if we can have kind of a primer on the most basic parts of brain anatomy, the area that you discuss in your JAMA Pediatrics publication titled Associations Between Screen-Based Media Use, and Brain White Matter Integrity in Preschool Aged Children. Can you define for us what is brain white matter versus gray matter?

Dr. John Hutton (01:55):

It's a great question. I, I think very often, you know, scientists and others take for granted that these terms and this jargon is sort of generally understood by the public, but it's, it is a little vague, you know, why is it called matter? We don't really, you know, what's the matter? We don't, uh, you know, it's, it, it's a kind of a, a, a funny term, but essentially gray matter and white matter, um, the term started by what they look like on, on brain imaging scans, like on an MRI or on a CAT scan. Um, and the, the gray matter is basically the surface of the brain. It's the, it's where the cells are what are called neurons, and those are the ones that, you know, have all the genes in them and all the, all the, you know, the parts of the machine essentially that, um, that talk to each other.

Dr. John Hutton (02:40):

It's also called the cortex, which is the surface, um, of the, of the brain. And it's very thin. It's only, um, you know, a few millimeters thick, uh, all at the surface. Um, the white matter by contrast, takes up most of the space in the brain. And it's, it's basically the wires that connect these cells together. Um, and it's white because it has a fatty coating on it called myelin, which is a, essentially, it's a, um, it's a fatty acid that is like the, the rubber on an electric wire in your house. And it makes these, these wires communicate more rapidly, essentially. So gray matter cells, white matter wires connecting the cells to each other.

Hillary Wilkinson (03:24):

Okay. it's kind of indicative in the title of the study, but can you tell us what that study talked about with the overuse of screens in white matter?

Dr. John Hutton (03:40):

Yeah, and so, so what we did is, I mean, there in MRI, there's a bunch of different types of scans you can do. There, there are scans that involve some kind of task, which is called FMRI or functional MRI, where the child or whoever it is, does something when they're in the scanner and you're looking more at activity in the brain. And then there's structural scans, which are looking basically what it sounds like what it is. It's, um, you know, looking at the structure of the brain, whether it's how thick the cortex or gray matter gray matter is, um, or what the white matter looks like, how well developed it is, for example. So the study we published in the journal, JAMA Pediatrics, which was in 2019, was really the first of its kind to look at the, the question of, um, what, what is the relationship between screen use and young children? And all my work involves preschool aged kids, age three to five, which is about as young as you can get to get kids to voluntarily cooperate in the scanner, you know, without having a tantrum or having to be asleep. But, but any case, so we were looking at the, um, relationship between digital media use, or screen time, and the, the structure of the white matter in the brain at this, at this sort of critical age.

Hillary Wilkinson (04:49):

And what is it? Um, so we're talking, like you said, preschool age, and what makes this age group so kind of critical to study, do you think, in regards to screen use particularly?

Dr. John Hutton (05:03):

Yeah, that, that's a great question too. Um, so the brain is developing most rapidly in that zero to five age range. Um, you know, babies are born with the most brain cells they'll ever have, you know, like a hundred billion brain cells. And they have, the connections between them are really dense and they're not very well, uh, organized yet. So that's why babies are not able to walk yet. They're language hasn't developed yet. They, their, um, emotional regulation is still immature. It's 'cause the, the brain cells that they have are, are talking to each other, but they just, the connections between them haven't been refined yet. And the period of early childhood in zero to five is basically when a lot of that architecture in the brain is shaped, when a lot of the, the connections, sort of the white matter between different areas of the brain is, um, is refined so that these skills start to ripen.

Dr. John Hutton (05:55):

So that's when, you know, for example, vision and, and, um, hearing, you know, mature pretty early, language starts to develop very rapidly. Um, starting around age two when vocabulary takes off and kids are learning three to five words a day. Um, social skills start to develop. Um, it's, it's just really the, the most dynamic period of early brain development, um, in that zero to five space. Then, then there's a little bit of a steady state where certainly the brain's developing rapidly. You know, kids that, you know, from five to 10 are, are growing and learning. But the next really big takeoff is in adolescence when the, when the brain really starts to change again, pretty rapidly in response to puberty, but yeah. But zero to five is, is sort of where it's at in terms of those real foundational fundamental skills.

Hillary Wilkinson (06:40):

When you're looking at young children who have exceeded the screen time recommendations, what sort of, I feel like I'm, I'm asking the same question again, but I just feel like it's really important data and I really want people to hear it. Yeah. What type of structural changes have you seen?

Dr. John Hutton (07:06):

Yeah. And, and one, one thing that's important about that study, um, you know, going back to the 2019 and, um, is we used a measure in that study called the screen Q. Um, which isn't just one question. It's, um, a lot of, a lot of the brain research, or not even brain research, but a lot of the research around screen time or video use involves a single question, you know, how many hours per day does your child watch TV or use a screen? The screen Q by contrast is, um, 15 items that really summarize the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines. There's, there's four main contexts of screen use in those. There's access to screens such as, um, does a child have a screen in their bedroom? Do they have a portable device they carry with them? Are they able to use screens at meals or, or, um, you know, in the car,  frequency of use, you know, how many minutes per day, days per week, um, content, you know, is it, is it fast moving content?

Dr. John Hutton (08:02):

Is it violent content? Really, essentially what, what is the child using? And then co-viewing is the, is the parent using the media with the child? Are they asking questions about what the child's watching, for example? So, so all these questions came together to give a score. Um, you know, the screen Q total score that really reflected a higher score was greater non-adherence, so greater, like, like not following the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines. So in our study, what we did is we took a bunch of kids, we had about, um, about 60 kids that were preschool age, and we administered the screen Q to their parent to get a sense of what's their media landscape like at home. Um, we brought them in, um, did MRI scanning, did a bunch of different kinds of scans, but the one we looked at in that study was, um, looking at white matter.

Dr. John Hutton (08:52):

It's a type of scan called diffusion tensor imaging, or DTI, which is a fancy term for what do the white matter connections look like. Um, and we found that kids with higher scores on the screen Q or, or less adherence to American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines had less, well-developed white matter really all over their, their brain, but, but especially in areas that are involved with language and literacy, which was really the core question in the study. It was, it was a part of a bigger study that also looked at, at reading in the amount of reading in the home and how that affects the brain. Um, and then we also administered some behavioral tests. Um, and, and that's the thing about MRIs. A lot of times you'll get a picture, but you're not, excuse me, but you're not quite sure what it means. Um, so you want to connect it with something not related to the scan. Like what, what sort of behavioral correlate or what, you know, how does this scan connect with, like the score on a language te measure or a, some sort of validated test? So we administered four different, um, um, sort of measures of early language and literacy and, and kids with higher screen time also had lower scores on those, all of those measures significantly. So, so we had less, well-developed white matter and lower scores on cognitive tests for kids with more exposure to, to digital media, um, in all these different contexts.

Hillary Wilkinson (10:12):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I don't know if you're, um, at liberty to make predictive <laugh> predictive analysis, but I, so as we age, what I've learned is that our white matter tends to thin, am I correct in understanding that?

Dr. John Hutton (10:33):

Um, it can, so the general, okay. The general rule with white matter is, is there's a, there's an adage in brain science neurons that fire together, wire together. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So really it's a use it or lose it situation. Like the more, and I think in general, as we age, you know, the, the level of myelin and the, and the white matter probably does go down, but there's also a lot of evidence that the more we use our brains, whether it's reading or interacting with other people or meditation or whatever it is, we can help preserve that white matter and even even build it up just by using, using those circuits that the white matter's involved with. So, so for kids, I mean, kids are still building that white matter up, so kids when they're little, their, their brains are, um, are a little more on the gray side because, or when they're babies, because the white matter hasn't really started to develop fully yet. And then as they get older, you'll see the scans, the, the, the difference between the gray matter and white matter on the scan starts to really sharpen because, um, those brain connections are being what's called myelinated, the, the coating around those wires. And that white matter is starting to get thicker and, and denser. And that makes those, those connections, um, uh, communication faster and more efficient. And so, and, in young kids who are developing these early skills, the more they practice something, the thicker this white matter gets, the more well developed these circuits get. And that's what we found on our scan was just that the kids that had more screen exposure had just less evidence of less of that myelination happening in these, in these brain areas that, that connect important parts of the brain that support language and literacy and, and a lot of other skills, executive function.

Hillary Wilkinson (12:35):

So we have to take a break, but when we come back, I will be asking Dr. Hutton what we can be doing to strengthen brain growth and the difference between reading aloud or using a tablet.

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Hillary Wilkinson:

I am speaking with Dr. John Hutton, who is an associate professor in the division of general and Community Pediatrics at UT Southwestern Dallas Children's Hospital and an adjunct associate professor at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. So in addition to over 50 scientific articles, he has also published over 40 children's books. And many of these books have health promoting themes for littles, like safe sleep and interactive reading and limiting screen time. That's this whole series that's called Baby Unplugged, which you'll find linked in our show notes. Before we dive into your book stuff, I kind of have a question that I, I, I wanna go back to the whole, I'm picturing littles in this MRI setting. I've only experienced MRI due to like injury or needing a scan of something. But it is a very tight space, and you have to be very still. So how do you collect imaging on what is arguably the squirmiest population set <laugh>?

Dr. John Hutton (15:00):

Yeah. That, that's a, that's a great question. That's one of the biggest questions that we get is sort of, how do you do this? 'cause it's, um, really that, and that's one of the reasons I think that the evidence is relatively scant at that age, is just, it's hard to do that kind of study. And there aren't a lot of places that can do it just just based on the, the, um, the technicians involved.

Really, really one of the biggest challenges in brain imaging research at that age is just getting kids to cooperate. Um, all of the, all of our scanning paradigms are play-based. You know, we don't ever sedate the kids. That's unethical. So, so really the, the parents bring them in voluntarily. So first of all, you have to, you know, do successful recruitment where, where the, you know, parents have to agree to bring the kids in. Um, we try to do a time of day when they're not too tired, you know, it's not naptime, it's not lunchtime, you know, but they do usually come in.

Dr. John Hutton (16:12):

But they do usually come in and, you know, we'll, we'll start slow, you know, we'll, we will, um, you know, do maybe read a book or, or play with some toys in the lobby. And then, and then we start the process of just kind of getting them to buy into the idea that we're going into this room with this big machine in it, and what is that machine? Why is it making those noises? And, um, and we've got a, a couple of different games that we've played before with them. There's the, the rocket ship game, the spaceship game where, you know, we're going on a trip to space and you've got a, you're an astronaut and you've gotta sit really still in this tube for about, you know, 20 to 30 minutes. And, and, and, you know, they'll, they'll kind of buy into that or they won't.

Dr. John Hutton (16:49):

Um, the other is a statue game where they come in, they gotta stay really, really still for a little while. And then after that's over, you know, we're gonna, um, they're gonna get a toy to take home. And, and, uh, and we've had pretty good success with that. We also have a practice scanner outside of the real scanner that's essentially a, um, a gurney with like a big kind of wooden thing around it, like a donut that looks like a scanner. So we wanna get them comfortable in that tight space. 'cause a lot of kids will get a little claustrophobic. Sure. They'll get anxious. Um, but yeah, there are, they're all play-based. Um, you know, really the biggest job is just getting them to get in there. Um, and then, you know, we, we have a, um, like a little, like a strap basically that's not tight or painful or anything, but just kind of holds their head still.

Dr. John Hutton (17:32):

Then it's like a little helmet. Um, and then, um, for the structural scans that can actually watch a video, the thing about screens is, you know, kids that are watching their favorite show will sit pretty still. So they can do that during the structural scans just to sit still. 'cause if they move more than five millimeters, it sort of throws off the scan. I mean, it has to be really, really still. Um, and then for the functional scans, we'll have a task that they'll do, um, whether it's hearing a story read aloud through headphones or asking questions. Um, and those more interactive scans can be great if the child's involved.

Dr. John Hutton (18:13):

But sometimes the kids will get a little antsy. But, um, long story short, um, it's just, you've just gotta get the kids to trust you. Um, you know, and the staff we have are great with that.  If they get scared or anxious, we turn the scan off right away, they can get up and walk out. I mean, there's never any, any sort of sense of, you know, you gotta stay in there, you get in trouble. Um, we find that girls have been a little better than boys in terms of sitting still in there. And I'm a boy. So I can say that I guess. But, uh, you know, it, but it just depends. Um, and overall, we've been very pleased. We've had, um, about 80 plus percent success rate, you know, in getting kids to come in and finish the scans, so,

Hillary Wilkinson (18:52):

Wow. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, no, I, uh, I, I can understand how enacting all the different kinds of play, uh, leads to a lot of buy-in. 'cause I think as parents, we, we all do that, right? So <laugh>, we enact Yeah. You know, to get out the door, you might race or you might, have a treasure hunt or something like this. So Yeah. You using, using play as a tool, it just like, you're using tech as a tool. We are not anti-tech at Healthy Screen Habits. We're pro intentional use. So yeah, you're using it intentionally.

Dr. John Hutton (19:27):

For sure. And, and the rooms is decked out, you know, to look like, you know, it's a child-friendly space. And, and that's one of the things about working at a children's hospital is just, you know, by design. There's, there's sort of more, you know, planets and dinosaurs and other things all over the place that, that help the child to feel comfortable.

Hillary Wilkinson (19:44):

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:33):

Let's go back to what you were talking about before the break of that, phrase, neurons that fire together, wire together and talking about building it. Would it be appropriate to say tracks within Yeah. The brain? Sure. Okay. So building tracks. I've also heard, because like I said, I've been following your work for years. Uh, you use this phrase, biological embedding. And is that, can you just, because for my own, you know, I, I do this podcast because I have questions I want answered <laugh>. Yeah. And that's, that's a question I have. So I have kind of two questions. My, my understanding is that this biological embedding happens with that track formation. I'm wondering A, if I have that right? and B, um, is there any other time in our lifespan when we have this sort of embedding that happens? Or is it specific to early childhood?

Dr. John Hutton (21:38):

Um, it's a, it's a great question. Um, so I think there's two, what I see as real critical periods for these sort of foundational experiences, it really biological embed embedding essentially is however an experience impacts your, um, your neurobiology. So, so whether it's an experience, a nurturing experience in the home where you form brain networks that, that, um, are are involved with just a, a greater feeling of safety and, and sort of, you know, less anxiety, for example. Or, um, early exposure to language, you know, um, children that are talked to a lot and are encouraged to talk more often, you know, the, that experience is embedded in their brain through more resilient, stronger language networks. And then these networks tend to persist through the lifespan. I mean, that early foundation sort of is your basic neural architecture you'll take with you through the rest of your life.

Dr. John Hutton (22:31):

And, um, you can either continue to maintain that and build it up, or you can neglect it and it'll start to erode. You know, to your question earlier about as we get older, does our violation go away? Um, but early childhood is just when the real foundation happens, like the foundation of your house. And then I'd say the other period where there's a lot of, of that same type of embedding is in adolescents. You know, when kids are going through puberty, when their, their brains dramatically change again in response to, to their hormones. And that's when a lot of the, the basic wiring that has to do with, social cognition, understanding the feelings of others', empathy, um, where do I belong in the world? How do I fit in and how do I connect with other people? Um, and I probably, evolutionarily that goes back to like a sense of, you know, how do I, how do I know that I'm an acceptable mate for someone else, you know, and to go out and connect with someone else and, and then go on and have offspring.

Dr. John Hutton (23:25):

But, but for us, it's, you know, in teenagers nowadays, it's just that sense of belonging in the world. And I think that's when a lot of the good things can happen that relate to digital media use if it's used properly, um, in a, in a pro-social, you know, appropriate way. But it could also, when a lot of negatives can happen when it's abused and either overused or the wrong content or the, or too isolating or whatever it is. Um, the other factor that comes into play is kids also are born with predispositions to different types of traits. You know, whether they're predisposed to have really strong language skills or predisposed to anxiety or predisposed to an addiction, um, that's also gonna impact how they respond to these early experiences and how, how those are embedded in their brain. So it's a really a combination of, um, of sort of genetics experiences and neurobiology.

Hillary Wilkinson (24:14):

Mm. Okay. Yeah. So, um, I'm, I'm worrying that as we're talking about all of this, um, very early, very early use, you know, very, very early nerve, uh, neural growth that people are going to be listening to this and they're gonna feel like, oh no, <laugh> <laugh>, I've ruined my children. It's too late. Let them watch all the tv. You know, none of it matters <laugh>, you know? 

Dr. John Hutton:

No, not at all. 

Hillary Wilkinson:

That's, that's, yeah. So is there, can you talk about, is there like a secret sauce that can get neurons fired, wired connecting with all the good stuff?

Dr. John Hutton (24:50):

For sure. Um, and it's never too late. I mean, I hear that a lot from, from parents that there's a lot of parental guilt out in the world, you know, and it's, it's a complicated landscape. I'm very, very glad that I was not a kid, that I'm not a kid in today's world, you know, where there's so many products and things that are marketed as educational, things that are marketed that are just, I mean, there's just a, a, a waterfall of products out there that parents are supposed to navigate their children through or help them with. So, you know, I think parents, you know, guilt take that off the table. It's just all about doing your best, um, meeting your kids where they are, you know? Um, and, you know, in the context of your own family circumstances. But, um, you know, if a child, let's say, watched a lot of TV when they were little, had a, had a tablet in their bedroom, whatever, and, and that you, you start to see some negatives manifest when they get to school, you can always try to try to turn that around and, and really just change the types of exposures they're getting.

Dr. John Hutton (25:46):

You know, um, we can get at this a little bit later, but, you know, taking screens outta the bedroom, for example, starting to encourage other types of behaviors that can, um, that really, that can reshape some of these connections in the brain. And it's, it's really, it's never too late. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, um, certainly early childhood is very important. 'cause that's when the brain is most plastic when it's responding really, really efficiently to experiences. And that's why zero to five is so critical because you get really the most bang for your buck at that time. You know? Um, early exposure to lots of storybooks, for example, reading to your kids a lot in their early childhood is really likely to pay a really strong dividends in terms of their language and relationship to books going forward, just because their brains is very receptive at that age. Um, if you'd never read to your kids until they were teenagers and then you start, then it could be enjoyable and effective, but it's less likely they're gonna have as much bang for their buck in terms of their language, just 'cause their brains are different. But, um, it still works, but just early childhood is just, it's just, you know. Right,

Hillary Wilkinson (26:46):

Right. Secret.

Dr. John Hutton (26:47):

No, sorry.

Hillary Wilkinson (26:48):

I I was gonna say why? What is it about reading aloud that gets that that works so well?

Dr. John Hutton (26:56):

Reading aloud- The, the power of that is, is it's, it's, um, it's just such a, a powerful catalyst for bringing grownups and kids together. I mean, the secret sauce of early development in general is loving grownups and their kids spending time together. I mean, and that's, I think, just, just evolutionarily, hardwired in our brains. I mean, the human brain essentially is an analog organ that evolved over millions of years to process five senses. You know, sight, sound, touch, taste, and hearing. And then, um, and also interactions with other people. You know, social skills like to sort of perceive, perceive the world, whether it's connection with other humans or danger. Um, so that's just what it does really well. And the thing about digital media is it simulates the real world. So it simulates interactions with real people. It, it provides some senses, but not all of them.

Dr. John Hutton (27:53):

Mostly audio visual. And so you get, you get some of the things that the brains evolve to process, but not all of them. It's very entertaining. You can connect with other people through, like we're doing now through, through, um, FaceTime or Zoom or whatever. So there's a lot of amazing things technology does, but it just doesn't do everything. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, and so the brain I think has, has evolved to really need certain things, especially in early childhood, particularly interactions with loving caregivers. And that's been shown in babies where babies learn language much more efficiently. When they see a human face talking to them, they lock into that and it's sort of turn, it almost like turns on the switch in their brain that says, I need to pay attention now because this loving grownup that I know loves me is talking to me. 'cause otherwise, there's so many sounds they're exposed to in the world, um, that they kind of tune out a lot of them. But when, when the loving caregiver comes into play, that's when the brain really starts to crackle in a good way. Okay.

Hillary Wilkinson (29:05):

And that kind of, that kind of feeds right into my next question, which is far as, um, read alouds go, you know, there's all kinds of read alouds, uh, you know, quote unquote dictated stories, <laugh> like they're, you know, they're being called read alouds, but it's more like a, a listening to a story on a tablet or a device. Do these have the same kind of beneficial, um, effect as a parent or caregiver reading out loud?

Dr. John Hutton (29:38):

It's, uh, I, I would say partially. Um, the thing about the read alouds on devices, and you know, when you can click the button and it says read to me, is, um, the other thing about, about story sharing or, or, or reading is, is it can be a one-way exercise when you're reading to your child and they're listening. But it's, it's really optimal when it's a two-way exercise when you're asking questions called dialogic reading. When, um, when you read a part of the book point at the picture, the child says something, and when they're a baby, they might just say, you know, try to try to say the word when they're older, they can say how they feel about what they're hearing. So that, so the interactive reading, the back and forth is really where not only is the child hearing language, but they're also practicing speaking.

Dr. John Hutton (30:23):

So you, so you get the, the expressive language benefit and the receptive language benefit as well as the social benefit where they can bring in, how do they feel about the story. Um, “I'm, I'm scared of bears mom!” or whatever, and then they can talk about bears or, you know, “I, I, I'm scared of the dark”, I mean, you can just bring a whole, whole nother layer to the story beyond the words on the page and the pictures. And it's a, it's a catalyst for, for just a human interaction. The devices by comparison, um, are very entertaining. I mean, you click the button, the child's locked in, they're gonna really watch it, but it mostly, most of what they're gonna get is gonna be listening and, and watching. They're not gonna, they rarely will be talking to their device and if they talk to it, although that's changing with a lot of the Siri and Alexa, which kind of, kind of creeps me out a little bit, but, but I know that it's coming, is the device doesn't really talk back to them and doesn't really talk about how they're feeling.

Dr. John Hutton (31:22):

And it's an open question will, let's say a device is reading to a child and they say, you know, “I love dogs.” And then the, the device says, Ttell me about how you love dogs.” Will that have the same benefits that if their mom was asking the same questions? I don't think it will. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but that's gonna be coming, I think. But any case, um, it's just, um, the limitations of the device are just that they tend to be a little more, is a lot more isolating and a lot more of a one-way experience. 

We published a couple studies looking at differences in audio books, illustrated picture books and animated stories. And we found that in the brain what's going on is, um, is that, uh, in the audio books, kids, there's some evidence in preschool aged kids that they're struggling a little bit to understand what's going on in the story. It's entertaining, but sometimes they'll hear words they don't understand, and there's evidence their brain's straining a little bit to sort of make sense of the story, just 'cause they maybe haven't seen a lot of the things that they're hearing. Um, in an animated book, there's a real focus on the visual processing. There's, there's sort of hyper engagement of the visual networks where essentially the most of the brain activities involved with tracking what's going on in the story.

Dr. John Hutton (32:38):

And there's less of an engagement of language networks and other imagination related networks. But in picture books, there's just enough of a visual cue where the visual networks are involved, but also there's, there's this really balanced connection of the language network talking to the visual networks and then bringing in the imagination part of the brain to come together with the, with the whole story and the, and the picture. And that's probably why kids at that age, like picture books is, it's, it's just enough visual, but not too much. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it allows their imaginations to do some work. 

Hillary Wilkinson (33:11):

We have to take a short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Dr. Hutton for his healthy screen habit.

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Hillary Wilkinson:

 I'm speaking with Dr. John Hutton, the spokesdoctor for the Read Aloud 15 Minutes National Campaign and co-author of forthcoming American Academy of Pediatrics Literacy Promotion Guidelines. He also works closely with the Children and Screens Institute, which is where we had the pleasure of connecting. So on every episode on the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask each guest for a healthy screen habit. And this is going to be a tip or takeaway that our listeners can put into practice in their own home. Do you have one?

Dr. John Hutton (34:10):

I do. I, I mean, I think my, my main, um, tip that I give as a pediatrician is really as much as possible, beginning as early as possible to keep screens out of the bedroom. Um, and, and really to focus on the context of screen use. Um, you know, where's the child allowed to use it? We just know that use in the bedroom tends to, tends to lead to the most negative impacts, whether it's too much screen use, um, impacting sleep, um, not being able to police the content very well, isolated viewing. So as much as you can keep screens outta the bedroom, that's, that's a huge win. Um, and then, and then the other is, is more broad is sort of, you know, there's a tagline for Baby Unplugged called Screen Free Until Three. For those parents out there who are either expecting or have really little kids, the longer you can keep kids off of screens when they don't know what they're missing is easier. And it's gonna have a, a really potentially big impact on not only the child, but on the parent too, spending quality time together.

Hillary Wilkinson (35:23):

As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show and a link to any of the resources discussed by visiting the show notes for this episode. Do this by going to healthy screen habits.org. Click the podcast button and find this episode. Dr. Hutton, thank you for being here today. It's been very interesting to learn about brain growth and to see what we can all do to foster the healthiest start for kids and screen habits.

Dr. John Hutton:

 It's been a pleasure, Hillary. Thank you so much.